patient_ot wrote:version sound wrote:STICK WITH THE EARLIER CD! It’s only “quiet” compared to other CDs that are overly loud and compressed. Quieter frequently translates to greater dynamic range:
1991 CD
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/65001
2001 CD
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/65001
Lower numbers mean lower dynamic range and more compression. They squashed it quite a bit on the remaster.
I think you accidentally posted the same link twice there.
Here is the remaster log:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/65000
I don't have the remaster, just the older CD. However, looking at those number it doesn't look too bad. I often see remasters with far worse numbers, usually in the DR5-7 range. I will say that even if the numbers look good, it doesn't say anything about the source or EQ. Some engineers will boost certain frequencies to try to make it sound "punchier" on the EQ front. That can often have an annoying effect.
If people are having trouble with CDs being "too quiet" or "too low in volume" they need to learn how to use replay gain tags or their volume control. If the volume control won't go loud enough with a particular disc, that usually means you need better equipment or playback software.
Another way to make an older CD louder is audio editing software like Audacity. Some ripping/conversion programs like dBpoweramp also have a function for this. However, you need to be careful because you can overdo it and induce digitally clipping on playback.
version sound wrote:Thanks to this thread, I’m revisiting the Sammich LP for the first time in a while. Although I probably wouldn’t draw the Ozzy comparison these days, I can still hear why I though that. Part of it is the way it was recorded, but there is definitely a certain tonality here and there that is similar to Ozzy. It’s definitely solo Ozzy, not Sabbath Ozzy. Anyway, this record is much better than I remembered. The only thing inferior to the Dischord years is that horrendous cover art.
lewdd wrote:drew wrote:First time I saw STT I only had heard the song from "State of The Union" but they were just great. After getting the first album & Ten Spot they played with JAWBOX at CBGB it was the album release for "Novelty" Both bands bands were smokin' that night. I remember being right up front and really impressed with Craig's voice. Saw them open for Fugazi at The Ritz but the crowd wasn't too into it. Just moshing to mosh.
Cool show was STT/Sunny Day Real Estate & Le Tigre' at Irving Plaza I think it was a CMJ night. The cast from THE STATE were there. Very 90's
Did they dip their balls in it?
JGJR wrote:drew wrote:First time I saw STT I only had heard the song from "State of The Union" but they were just great. After getting the first album & Ten Spot they played with JAWBOX at CBGB it was the album release for "Novelty" Both bands bands were smokin' that night. I remember being right up front and really impressed with Craig's voice. Saw them open for Fugazi at The Ritz but the crowd wasn't too into it. Just moshing to mosh.
I saw the same show, but at City Gardens; that must've been the same tour. The same goes for Fugazi at the Ritz (saw the same bill at CG) a few months before that unless that was a different Fugazi/STT tour?
SamDBL wrote:Where the fuck was this band coming from? The first few releases were very easy to listen to. I listened to ten spot, funeral at the movies, and that 7” non-stop when they came out. Then they went total Alterna prog.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:SamDBL wrote:Where the fuck was this band coming from? The first few releases were very easy to listen to. I listened to ten spot, funeral at the movies, and that 7” non-stop when they came out. Then they went total Alterna prog.
Simple answer. When Chris (guitarist) left the band, it went down the toilet.
patient_ot wrote:version sound wrote:STICK WITH THE EARLIER CD! It’s only “quiet” compared to other CDs that are overly loud and compressed. Quieter frequently translates to greater dynamic range:
1991 CD
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/65001
2001 CD
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/65001
Lower numbers mean lower dynamic range and more compression. They squashed it quite a bit on the remaster.
I think you accidentally posted the same link twice there.
Here is the remaster log:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/65000
I don't have the remaster, just the older CD. However, looking at those number it doesn't look too bad. I often see remasters with far worse numbers, usually in the DR5-7 range. I will say that even if the numbers look good, it doesn't say anything about the source or EQ. Some engineers will boost certain frequencies to try to make it sound "punchier" on the EQ front. That can often have an annoying effect.
If people are having trouble with CDs being "too quiet" or "too low in volume" they need to learn how to use replay gain tags or their volume control. If the volume control won't go loud enough with a particular disc, that usually means you need better equipment or playback software.
Another way to make an older CD louder is audio editing software like Audacity. Some ripping/conversion programs like dBpoweramp also have a function for this. However, you need to be careful because you can overdo it and induce digitally clipping on playback.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
version sound wrote:Thanks to this thread, I’m revisiting the Sammich LP for the first time in a while. Although I probably wouldn’t draw the Ozzy comparison these days, I can still hear why I though that. Part of it is the way it was recorded, but there is definitely a certain tonality here and there that is similar to Ozzy. It’s definitely solo Ozzy, not Sabbath Ozzy. Anyway, this record is much better than I remembered. The only thing inferior to the Dischord years is that horrendous cover art.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
drew wrote:JGJR wrote:drew wrote:First time I saw STT I only had heard the song from "State of The Union" but they were just great. After getting the first album & Ten Spot they played with JAWBOX at CBGB it was the album release for "Novelty" Both bands bands were smokin' that night. I remember being right up front and really impressed with Craig's voice. Saw them open for Fugazi at The Ritz but the crowd wasn't too into it. Just moshing to mosh.
I saw the same show, but at City Gardens; that must've been the same tour. The same goes for Fugazi at the Ritz (saw the same bill at CG) a few months before that unless that was a different Fugazi/STT tour?
I'm not sure about City Gardens. The Ritz show was funny because I saw Fugazi the night before at Maxwells. LOL A couple of hundred ppl to three-thousand in 24 hours.
STT didn't play the Maxwells show. I forget who opened......
I saw Fugazi four times at City Gardens:
w/ Ween
w/Lunachicks
w/GVSB two nights in a row. IOTKT tour
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
JGJR wrote:I'm with Sam on this one, too. I've never really been able to hear the Ozzy comparison tbh. That said, I've underrated this Lp a lot (listened to it yesterday for the first time in a while); wish I still had the early '00s CD, so I had a very similar reaction to you.
JGJR wrote:I had a feeling one of you would post something like this. Here's what I think. With the equipment I have now (an Onkyo CD player from the late '80s that I have to replace the belt on and a proper receiver and speakers; thus it's been 100% vinyl and digital here for the past few months), I'd bet that those Shudder to Think, Shades Apart and whatever other super-quiet CDs would probably sound good with the volume turned up, but on a CD boombox or Discman or car CD player (what I was listening to this stuff on back in the '90s), I just remember having to turn it way up and having trouble hearing important parts, et al.
All that said, I've owned the Embrace and I think 1 or both of the Dag Nasty remaster CDs (unless I am misremembering but I definitely had the Embrace disc) from that Silver Sonya remaster series and I don't recall it/them being brickwalled at all.
SamDBL wrote:xxxMidgexxx wrote:SamDBL wrote:Where the fuck was this band coming from? The first few releases were very easy to listen to. I listened to ten spot, funeral at the movies, and that 7” non-stop when they came out. Then they went total Alterna prog.
Simple answer. When Chris (guitarist) left the band, it went down the toilet.
I do remember that being a big change in the sound.
JGJR wrote:I'm with Sam on this one, too. I've never really been able to hear the Ozzy comparison tbh. That said, I've underrated this Lp a lot (listened to it yesterday for the first time in a while); wish I still had the early '00s CD, so I had a very similar reaction to you.
version sound wrote:JGJR wrote:I'm with Sam on this one, too. I've never really been able to hear the Ozzy comparison tbh. That said, I've underrated this Lp a lot (listened to it yesterday for the first time in a while); wish I still had the early '00s CD, so I had a very similar reaction to you.
Like I said, it’s probably not a comparison I would make if I heard it for the first time today, but the fact that others thought that too makes me think I wasn’t completely crazy.
The CD is still available from Dischord for $10. I ordered one the other day.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
patient_ot wrote:I was initially impressed with some "loud" remasters in the mid/late 90s when I primarily used a portable CD player and boombox. The headphone amp in the portable could only give so much juice and the boombox had serious limitations as well. Overtime those discs got fatiguing, and I got rid of a lot of them and replaced them with older discs. The Bad Religion and Slayer remasters are prime examples of that.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:SamDBL wrote:xxxMidgexxx wrote:SamDBL wrote:Where the fuck was this band coming from? The first few releases were very easy to listen to. I listened to ten spot, funeral at the movies, and that 7” non-stop when they came out. Then they went total Alterna prog.
Simple answer. When Chris (guitarist) left the band, it went down the toilet.
I do remember that being a big change in the sound.
Waaay too big of a change. The songs didn't "rock" or flow anymore and for them the departure was not good. Their interpretation of 'art rock' or 'neo prog' or Avant-garde...was just flat out annoyingly awful.
Too herky jerky and the sound was all over the map in a bad way.
They were my favorite band for a LONG time. I also listened to them non stop. And then....
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
gregpolard wrote:xxxMidgexxx wrote:SamDBL wrote:xxxMidgexxx wrote:SamDBL wrote:Where the fuck was this band coming from? The first few releases were very easy to listen to. I listened to ten spot, funeral at the movies, and that 7” non-stop when they came out. Then they went total Alterna prog.
Simple answer. When Chris (guitarist) left the band, it went down the toilet.
I do remember that being a big change in the sound.
Waaay too big of a change. The songs didn't "rock" or flow anymore and for them the departure was not good. Their interpretation of 'art rock' or 'neo prog' or Avant-garde...was just flat out annoyingly awful.
Too herky jerky and the sound was all over the map in a bad way.
They were my favorite band for a LONG time. I also listened to them non stop. And then....
When's the last time you tried "Pony Express Record"?
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
JGJR wrote:patient_ot wrote:I was initially impressed with some "loud" remasters in the mid/late 90s when I primarily used a portable CD player and boombox. The headphone amp in the portable could only give so much juice and the boombox had serious limitations as well. Overtime those discs got fatiguing, and I got rid of a lot of them and replaced them with older discs. The Bad Religion and Slayer remasters are prime examples of that.
I bought a used copy of Suffer at some point on CD (the original master) and thought it sounded like crud. I don't think I've ever heard the more recent masters.
patient_ot wrote:I think it's funny how divided opinions are on PER. I've always liked it and most people I knew liked it. Not one for the purists I suppose.
I've heard similar comments in the last couple of years about Jawbox's FYOSS. I like that one also.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
patient_ot wrote:I think it's funny how divided opinions are on PER. I've always liked it and most people I knew liked it. Not one for the purists I suppose.
I've heard similar comments in the last couple of years about Jawbox's FYOSS. I like that one also.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
gregpolard wrote:patient_ot wrote:I think it's funny how divided opinions are on PER. I've always liked it and most people I knew liked it. Not one for the purists I suppose.
I've heard similar comments in the last couple of years about Jawbox's FYOSS. I like that one also.
FYOSS (and sometimes the S/T) are my favorite Jawbox.
Maybe it's because I never cared about bands going to major labels but I think most of the hate comes from angry old dudes who were mad in the 90's that these bands signed. If those albums came out on Dischord people would most likely love them. They both used Ted Niceley for Production on their major label debuts. It's not like they went to Mutt Lange.
Personally, I loathe my job and if someone in a band can make a living from it and still make great music, IDGAF.
drew wrote:I saw Jawbox/Jawbreaker in '98(??)on that last tour for both, I guess. Jawbreaker were only playing two songs from DEAR YOU, they heard the word on the street and set was mostly 24 Hour....S/T Jawbox wasn't quite out yet but they played maybe 4-5 songs from it. Including "Chines Fork Tie" for the opener. They are great but the new tunes lacked that visceral punch and were more arty. I dig bands trying to expand out but you are gonna lose some of that live energy.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
gregpolard wrote:Been on another Shudder to Think bender and want to go on record that hating Pony Express Record still is crazy.
SamDBL wrote:That shit was definitely mastered at a crazy low volume. Not just the CD. A lot of the DIschord of that time, was. But the STT catalog really stood out. I remember having to crank my stereo up about 3 or 4 notches when listening to 'funeral at the movies'' to keep up with any other thing that I happened to be listening to.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:Early 1991, me and Aquaman paid extra money to sit in at a session at Masterdisk in NYC to watch the process. The recording was made brighter and clearer through their "machinery". Expensive though. Still, for a young band trying to get to make their first impression, its a worthy investment.
Mark T. wrote:xxxMidgexxx wrote:Early 1991, me and Aquaman paid extra money to sit in at a session at Masterdisk in NYC to watch the process. The recording was made brighter and clearer through their "machinery". Expensive though. Still, for a young band trying to get to make their first impression, its a worthy investment.
That's a tough task for most bands. How did you guys come up with the funds to pull that off?
SamDBL wrote:That shit was definitely mastered at a crazy low volume. Not just the CD. A lot of the DIschord of that time, was. But the STT catalog really stood out. I remember having to crank my stereo up about 3 or 4 notches when listening to 'funeral at the movies'' to keep up with any other thing that I happened to be listening to.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
version sound wrote:I’ll take quiet and dynamic over loud and compressed any day. Of course, some sort of middle ground would be optimal. The old Dischord CDs could be a little quiet, and the new remasters are a little loud and compressed (though not horribly so). All in all, I prefer the OG masters (though vinyl tends to be better than either for most Dischord releases).
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
captain2man wrote:gregpolard wrote:Been on another Shudder to Think bender and want to go on record that hating Pony Express Record still is crazy.
Good timing.....we're recording our episode on Ten Spot this week. I'm still not quite sure what to (shudder to) think.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
scannest wrote:Craig is the music supervisor for Showtime's YELLOWJACKETS (alongside Anna Waronker of That Dog fame). They also sing the theme song, which could almost, sorta pass for Shudder to Think if you squint hard enough:
xxxMidgexxx wrote:Early 1991, me and Aquaman paid extra money to sit in at a session at Masterdisk in NYC to watch the process. The recording was made brighter and clearer through their "machinery". Expensive though. Still, for a young band trying to get to make their first impression, its a worthy investment.
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