"What does this have to do with kickstarter? Are bands putting up campaigns for hotel rooms and nice meals?"
yes, i have seen this, and also addressed this.
"That's EXACTLY who pays for it, and always has. Do you think money from labels and bands just pops out of thin air? Bands either make money to pay for records from playing shows (which fans pay for) or labels make the money from other record sales (which fans pay for). I'm really interested to hear who you think has been paying for records all along."
no shit, but like i said for bands i like, i buy the records, see them when they tour, and usually i buy some merch. if you asking me to foot the bill for anything else, you are nuts. if you can't get enough on your end to get a record out of that or some studio time, think about firing your manager and booking shows yourself.
"Which is what makes platforms like Kickstarter so great. I'd think you'd be all over it."
not if you are asking a fan to pay for what is essentially your hobby. like i said, if you are not a full time band, this is what your band essentially is, and i am not going to pay for it.
"Man, I'll bet every Black Flag and Verbal Abuse release that ever came out was right on fucking time with no delays, ever. "
moot point, because those bands were never asking for my money up front. find me a band, esp a hc one before 2010 that was asking for anything like a band is asking for today.
"That's barely even true at all anymore. Most labels will 'help' pay for the manufacture of a record and then take some of your tshirt money and whatever else to make up for their losses. But whatever. I'm glad to hear that you're so gung ho about labels taking the reigns of music being released now, as opposed to artists doing it themselves. Too bad we collectively spent the last 35 or so years destroying them all."
any small label will either pay to press your record, or pay to have it recorded, not necessarily both. if a label is going to fuck you in the ass by taking out your shirt sales to recoup other costs, you should have had a laywer look at your contract. maybe a major label would do that, but not a small independent label.
if you don't want to do a full tour, don't expect a label to press your lp and don't expect your fans to pay for it either. i don't think that is illogical at all.
"It's a logical conclusion that that is what'll happen. However, maybe they will if you're an established band. I know several bands that don't tour much that still sell an ok amount of records. By your logic, they should just go fuck themselves and stop putting out music because 'that's what oughta happen and that's what they deserve!'. You keep bringing up what a label will or won't do. A label is not part of this equation. Just fans and an artist. An artist has every right to ask his fans if they want him/her to put out another record. Why the fuck are you so up in arms about that?"
it's fine if bands don't tour, but don't expect to sell the amount of records like a band that tours the world will. that is just illogical. like i said, if your band is your hobby, don't expect me to pay for it. if your record is good enough, people will buy it and that can fund the next one. what is so hard about just putting it out on your own, even if you take a loss? i guess bands are afraid to find out no one gives a shit about them or only wants to hear the early stuff. maybe that is a lot for a musician to accept, i dunno.
i can name you plenty of bands and labels who press records for fair prices and don't ask for handouts.
Since asking for handouts = not allowing for presales of a product, ok. That's great that you know a bunch of bands and labels that don't offer presales, I guess (?)
a presale from a label is someone that is already established. a389, dishcord,revelation records, painkiller records, thorp, b9, even taang have never asked their fanbase to give them money unless they were getting a record right away. having a kickstarter to fund a record that needs to be recorded is not a presale. it might get made two years down the line, if at all. i get something from a label in a few months, tops. big difference.
i agree with welly, i think people have a sense of entitlement now instead of being willing to put in the leg work themselves.
"I think YOU have the sense of entitlement. Seriously. As a fan, you expect everything to be done for you at the expense of the band and/or a label and then handed to you on a silver platter at what you consider to be a fair price (or free) in a timely fashion, or else the whole thing should just cease to exist because you simply deserve (and will accept) no less!"
i never said i wouldn't pay. if anything, it is the two musicians in this thread acting entitled and shocked that their fans don't want to foot the bill for them. you can blame the internet, blogs and lack of labels all you want, it doesn't mean fans should have to pay bands to tour and record. that is whack.
i am too lazy to put in all of the quotes stuff, so i hope it doesn't end up being too hard to follow.