Sweetbelly Freakdown - all purpose thread

[version sound]

Best American punk band of the '90s.

[JGJR]

Best American punk band of the '90s.

I like SWF and all, but for whatever reason nowhere near as much as Swiz or Red Hare, so that is ridiculous. The correct answer here is Jawbreaker.

[JGJR]

Best American punk band of the '90s.

I like them and all, but for whatever reason nowhere near as much as Swiz or Red Hare, so that is ridiculous. I missed their records when they came out, though, so maybe if I'd heard them in the late '90s I might think differently. Regardless, the correct answer here is Jawbreaker.

[version sound]

Saying twice don't make it right.

Sweetbelly > Red Hare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jawbreaker (who weren't even a punk band)

[gregpolard]

Lifetime

[JGJR]

Saying twice don't make it right.

Sweetbelly > Red Hare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jawbreaker (who weren't even a punk band)

Have you ever actually heard Jawbreaker?

And sorry for the double post. I meant to edit and posted it again (not sure how).

[captain2man]

Saying twice don't make it right.

Sweetbelly > Red Hare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jawbreaker (who weren't even a punk band)

Have you ever actually heard Jawbreaker?

And sorry for the double post. I meant to edit and posted it again (not sure how).

I was just thinking maybe he needs a mathematical review of the inequality signs.

[version sound]

Saying twice don't make it right.

Sweetbelly > Red Hare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jawbreaker (who weren't even a punk band)

Have you ever actually heard Jawbreaker?

And sorry for the double post. I meant to edit and posted it again (not sure how).

Sure have. Not punk. Indie-emo, maybe.

[version sound]

Do you guys consider The Get-Up Kids a punk band? You pop punk kids lost sight of where punk stops and pop begins.

[gregpolard]

How is Jawbreaker (at least the pre-major label stuff) not a punk band? Have you ever listened to "Unfun"? It's a melodic punk rock record.

[version sound]

How is Jawbreaker (at least the pre-major label stuff) not a punk band? Have you ever listened to "Unfun"? It's a melodic punk rock record.

Objectively speaking, I do not consider that punk rock. What makes it punk and not indie rock or "alternative"? Contextually, maybe they were a punk band, but musically? Not really. Even if you consider them punk, I still prefer SF by a hundred country miles.

[gregpolard]

Do you consider the Buzzcocks a punk band? The Sex Pistols? The Ramones?

[JGJR]

How is Jawbreaker (at least the pre-major label stuff) not a punk band? Have you ever listened to "Unfun"? It's a melodic punk rock record.

I would actually argue that it has more in common with late '80s DC stuff like Soulside than say, Green Day.

[version sound]

Do you consider the Buzzcocks a punk band? The Sex Pistols? The Ramones?

Contextually. If somone played that stuff for me and I had never heard it and knew nothing about the bands, I don't know if I'd call it punk. You guys have a lot more tolerance for melody in your punk than I do. Generally speaking, I do not like singing in punk. Melodic music is fine, but combine it with melodic vocals and you've lost me 9 times out of 10. I know a lot of you have a more big tent definition, but if punk cannot be defined in musical terms, then it just becomes a matter of fashion and association.

[gregpolard]

Do you consider the Buzzcocks a punk band? The Sex Pistols? The Ramones?

Contextually. If somone played that stuff for me and I had never heard it and knew nothing about the bands, I don't know if I'd call it punk. You guys have a lot more tolerance for melody in your punk than I do. Generally speaking, I do not like singing in punk. Melodic music is fine, but combine it with melodic vocals and you've lost me 9 times out of 10. I know a lot of you have a more big tent definition, but if punk cannot be defined in musical terms, then it just becomes a matter of fashion and association.

Somebody needs to take this guy out to lunch, stat.

[version sound]

I don't care who buys lunch, I'm not drinking the pop punk kool aid. Give me a reason that any of these bands are punk that doesn't rely mainly, if not solely, on the clothes they wore or the other bands they played with.

[gregpolard]

I don't care who buys lunch, I'm not drinking the pop punk kool aid. Give me a reason that any of these bands are punk that doesn't rely mainly, if not solely, on the clothes they wore or the other bands they played with.

So what bands ARE punk to you, then? If there's melody in the vocals, they're out?

[jaybird]

Do you consider the Buzzcocks a punk band? The Sex Pistols? The Ramones?

Contextually. If somone played that stuff for me and I had never heard it and knew nothing about the bands, I don't know if I'd call it punk. You guys have a lot more tolerance for melody in your punk than I do. Generally speaking, I do not like singing in punk. Melodic music is fine, but combine it with melodic vocals and you've lost me 9 times out of 10. I know a lot of you have a more big tent definition, but if punk cannot be defined in musical terms, then it just becomes a matter of fashion and association.

If we're going to be this particular about the definition of "punk", I don't see how an obscure band like SF that was active 20 years after the initial punk explosion somehow has greater claim to the label than bands like The Sex Pistols or the Buzzcocks the Ramones, who were, you know, among the first and most widely-acclaimed bands to ever be classified under that label, and were the bands who the term was originally invented for.

But that's just me.

[version sound]

Definitions change. Ask a kid what emo is and he sure as fuck won't reference the Revolution Summer. He'll probably also tell you that Avril is punk. In short, all is lost, and you '90s pop punkers are largely to blame.

I'm also pretty sure that the Sex Pistols and Ramones didn't self-identify as "punk". Punk is 99% individual perception.

[BAIN]

Dag w Shawn > Swiz > Red Hare > Sweetbelly

[version sound]

I should have learned by now that Dag Nasty fans have no taste. The fact that most of you prefer Dag to ROS should have really cemented that in my mind.

[BAIN]

I should have learned by now that Dag Nasty fans have no taste. The fact that most of you prefer Dag to ROS should have really cemented that in my mind.

Sweetbelly Freakdown is so far from punk it isn't funny. I would almost want to lump them with shitty nyhc bands.

[jaybird]

Definitions change. Ask a kid what emo is and he sure as fuck won't reference the Revolution Summer. He'll probably also tell you that Avril is punk. In short, all is lost, and you '90s pop punkers are largely to blame.

I'm also pretty sure that the Sex Pistols and Ramones didn't self-identify as "punk". Punk is 99% individual perception.

Definitions are also highly dependent of consensus - I'd venture to bet vastly more people would say the Sex Pistols are punk than Sweetbelly Freakdown - that is, if anyone outside of a few D.C. obsessives have ever even heard of SF. If you think that the Sex Pistols aren't a punk band, well, good for you, but you're basically just insisting on a definition for punk that is shared by pretty much no one else.

If I had to, I guess I'd say SF are post-hardcore, noise rock, but I generally think that sort of endless sub-genre classification is silly. So sure, SF are a punk band, and so were the Sex Pistols and Jawbreaker.

[version sound]

I do consider the Sex Pistols a punk band. My point was that, free of context, most people would consider the music they made plain old hard rock. There isn't anything intrinsically more "punk" about their music than AC/DC's.

[BAIN]

I do consider the Sex Pistols a punk band. My point was that, free of context, most people would consider the music they made plain old hard rock. There isn't anything intrinsically more "punk" about their music than AC/DC's.

time for everyone to walk away from this troll thread

[jaybird]

I do consider the Sex Pistols a punk band. My point was that, free of context, most people would consider the music they made plain old hard rock. There isn't anything intrinsically more "punk" about their music than AC/DC's.

time for everyone to walk away from this troll thread

Yeah, I started typing out a reply, but then I remembered arguing about the definition of "punk" was stupid 25 years ago in the MRR letters section.

[version sound]

I do consider the Sex Pistols a punk band. My point was that, free of context, most people would consider the music they made plain old hard rock. There isn't anything intrinsically more "punk" about their music than AC/DC's.

time for everyone to walk away from this troll thread

Yeah, I started typing out a reply, but then I remembered arguing about the definition of "punk" was stupid 25 years ago in the MRR letters section.

I didn't start the fucking argument. I don't think of Jawbreaker as punk. End of story. There doesn't need to be an argument, you guys can just accept that as my opinion/perception. I didn't argue when you claimed SF weren't punk. I don't really care how you care to classify them. This thread was meant to be a celebration of SF. If you don't like them, good for you. Very early on, I said, punk or not, I prefer SF to Jawbreaker. You guys were the ones who jumped in to defend their punkness. I don't care one way or the other what you guys consider punk.

[jaybird]

I do consider the Sex Pistols a punk band. My point was that, free of context, most people would consider the music they made plain old hard rock. There isn't anything intrinsically more "punk" about their music than AC/DC's.

time for everyone to walk away from this troll thread

Yeah, I started typing out a reply, but then I remembered arguing about the definition of "punk" was stupid 25 years ago in the MRR letters section.

I didn't start the fucking argument. I don't think of Jawbreaker as punk. End of story. There doesn't need to be an argument, you guys can just accept that as my opinion/perception. I didn't argue when you claimed SF weren't punk. I don't really care how you care to classify them. This thread was meant to be a celebration of SF. If you don't like them, good for you. Very early on, I said, punk or not, I prefer SF to Jawbreaker. You guys were the ones who jumped in to defend their punkness. I don't care one way or the other what you guys consider punk.

Maybe you should listen to some happier music. You seem pretty tense.

[gregpolard]

NOFX have a song called "punk guy". You's should check it out.

[version sound]

What's the ETA for that new Dorkboard? Greg, you'd like it there. They talk about All and the Descendents a whole lot.

[jaybird]

They talk about All and the Descendents a whole lot.

Nah, not really. we mostly make fun of a retarded 40 year-old and tell each other what we had for lunch.

[gregpolard]

What's the ETA for that new Dorkboard? Greg, you'd like it there. They talk about All and the Descendents a whole lot.

Oh, VS. You know you love me

[version sound]

They talk about All and the Descendents a whole lot.

Nah, not really. we mostly make fun of a retarded 40 year-old and tell each other what we had for lunch.

I refuse to be your Dorian, but wouldn't mind hearing about your lunch.

[gregpolard]

They talk about All and the Descendents a whole lot.

Nah, not really. we mostly make fun of a retarded 40 year-old and tell each other what we had for lunch.

Was hoping they did but when I signed up (10 years too late) the well must've run dry.

[jaybird]

They talk about All and the Descendents a whole lot.

Nah, not really. we mostly make fun of a retarded 40 year-old and tell each other what we had for lunch.

I refuse to be your Dorian, but wouldn't mind hearing about your lunch.

Left over pot roast w/carrots, onions, potatoes & celery.
2 clementines
1 apple
water

[xxxHunterxxx]

I refuse to believe Dorian is real. Nobody could lack self-awareness to that extent.

[jaybird]

I refuse to believe Dorian is real. Nobody could lack self-awareness to that extent.

I have met him in person. He's the real deal.

[Welly]

If you're comparing the punk-ness of Sweetbelly Freakdown to Jawbreaker it's a fallacy.

In correct context Sweetbelly Freakdown should be compared and contrasted with Jets to Brazil of the same time, which was outright emo navel-gazing indie dull coma music.

I wasn't really into Sweetbelly Freakdown either, but it was definitely more punk than Jets to Snoozeville. I preferred Jesuseater if anything.

Jawbreaker was definitely punk. Now shut it.

[gregpolard]

If you're comparing the punk-ness of Sweetbelly Freakdown to Jawbreaker it's a fallacy.

In correct context Sweetbelly Freakdown should be compared and contrasted with Jets to Brazil of the same time, which was outright emo navel-gazing indie dull coma music.

I wasn't really into Sweetbelly Freakdown either, but it was definitely more punk than Jets to Snoozeville. I preferred Jesuseater if anything.

Jawbreaker was definitely punk. Now shut it.

Jets didn't age as well for me as I'd have liked. The first album is cool. I put it on recently (read: within the last year) and thought it was ok. At the time it was released I was crazy over it because I was obsessed with Jawbreaker. I actually saw the first Jets show.

[Welly]

Jets didn't age as well for me as I'd have liked. The first album is cool.

No it isn't, it's like listening to the flu.

[version sound]

I'm curious why people who love Swiz dismiss Sweetbelly so often. I don't really understand why you would love one and not the other. I don't think the two are markedly different. I love Jesuseater too. And Red Hare. And Dag with Shawn.

[Welly]

I'm curious why people who love Swiz dismiss Sweetbelly so often. I don't really understand why you would love one and not the other. I don't think the two are markedly different. I love Jesuseater too. And Red Hare. And Dag with Shawn.

It just didn't chime with me at the time, maybe I should re-visit it.

[xxxHunterxxx]

I refuse to believe Dorian is real. Nobody could lack self-awareness to that extent.

I have met him in person. He's the real deal.

Is he better in person than on the Internets?

[version sound]

I'm curious why people who love Swiz dismiss Sweetbelly so often. I don't really understand why you would love one and not the other. I don't think the two are markedly different. I love Jesuseater too. And Red Hare. And Dag with Shawn.

It just didn't chime with me at the time, maybe I should re-visit it.

Do it! Swiz didn't really do much for me when I bought Down in the '80s, so I didn't follow them after that. I only revisited them 5-10 years ago, and now they are easily my favorite post-Revolution Summer punk band. If you had told me the Sweetbelly record was Swiz and came out a year after Hell Yes, I wouldn't have doubted it for a second.

[jaybird]

I refuse to believe Dorian is real. Nobody could lack self-awareness to that extent.

I have met him in person. He's the real deal.

Is he better in person than on the Internets?

About the same.

[yourenotevil]

I should have learned by now that Dag Nasty fans have no taste. The fact that most of you prefer Dag to ROS should have really cemented that in my mind.

Sweetbelly Freakdown is so far from punk it isn't funny. I would almost want to lump them with shitty nyhc bands.

this has to be the only thing i can't wrap my head around in this thread. how are they like NYHC at all? they don't sound like it, i mean, it was a fucking swiz record basically. in fact, the name was a goof on nyhc band names.


i like SBF a fair amount. when i heard it in 95 i was kind of bummed out, but it has grown on me over the years. have to agree that jesuseater is the better band though. i still like swiz and red hare a lot more though. i don't get why people who are fans of those bands tend to shit on the Sweet lp though. i wish they had stayed around, as the songs they were writing when they broke up were really good.


as for jawbreaker, i think 99 percent of their fan base would consider them a punk band. they came up in gilman and even had a harder edge to some of their songs than what a "pop punk" band would have. i never even considered them pop punk, i hate that term. when i was getting into punk/hc in 94, jawbreaker were the one band that everyone could agree on as being good, from MRR critics to kids into CRASS and anarcho stuff. it was never even a debate. they certainly didn't seem to care what they were labeled as but i remember one blake interview where he said the void side of the faith split was one of his top ten records. i thought that was cool. i think i was bummed like everyone else when they signed to dgc, but more so because they had been so adamant abut never signing to a major label and then backpedaling about it, and on top of that putting out what was considered a shit album.

i guess you could argue that crimpshrine and a lot of those lookout bands were weak sounding and poppy compared to some of their peers, but i always took that stuff as punk. same with screeching weasel. i wouldn't defend stuff like the riverdales as being punk though.

[clash77]

Do you consider the Buzzcocks a punk band? The Sex Pistols? The Ramones?

Contextually. If somone played that stuff for me and I had never heard it and knew nothing about the bands, I don't know if I'd call it punk. You guys have a lot more tolerance for melody in your punk than I do. Generally speaking, I do not like singing in punk. Melodic music is fine, but combine it with melodic vocals and you've lost me 9 times out of 10. I know a lot of you have a more big tent definition, but if punk cannot be defined in musical terms, then it just becomes a matter of fashion and association.

If we're going to be this particular about the definition of "punk", I don't see how an obscure band like SF that was active 20 years after the initial punk explosion somehow has greater claim to the label than bands like The Sex Pistols or the Buzzcocks the Ramones, who were, you know, among the first and most widely-acclaimed bands to ever be classified under that label, and were the bands who the term was originally invented for.



But that's just me.

This is right on the mark...

[version sound]

I get the feeling YNE is the only one who has listened to the record since it came out and/or more than twice, because most of you don't seem to know WTF you're talking about. Sweetbelly is exactly as far from punk as Swiz.

[BAIN]

If you're comparing the punk-ness of Sweetbelly Freakdown to Jawbreaker it's a fallacy.

In correct context Sweetbelly Freakdown should be compared and contrasted with Jets to Brazil of the same time, which was outright emo navel-gazing indie dull coma music.

I wasn't really into Sweetbelly Freakdown either, but it was definitely more punk than Jets to Snoozeville. I preferred Jesuseater if anything.

Jawbreaker was definitely punk. Now shut it.

Totally agree, but I will chime in here and say that Thorns of Life could of been Blake's best band ever and they kicked the shit out of Sweetbelly Freakdown and they never recorded a single song.

[matt]

HI GUYS! Guess what? People have different tastes! And definitions of musical genres are largely subjective! WHOA! I know, right?!?

If you want to fight to the death proving that your definition of punk is the definitive one, go right ahead. But if you're over 16 years old, don't be surprised if you get mocked for it... maybe by me.

Oh, and I love Sweetbelly Freakdown, Swiz, AND Jawbreaker. Crazy.