Mickey wrote:Anyone a wee bit tired of this?
Mickey wrote:(The above does not apply to Jeff Dean or Dave Smalley -- dudes who HAVE paid their dues!)
scannest wrote:Mickey wrote:(The above does not apply to Jeff Dean or Dave Smalley -- dudes who HAVE paid their dues!)
Seems to be a glaring ommission in your "exceptions" list. Is that on purpose?
Welly wrote:Mickey wrote:Anyone a wee bit tired of this?
I was tired of this shit the minute I found out about it.
You want to do something, save up. You want to make something, make it your fucking self.
Knutsen wrote:Welly wrote:Mickey wrote:Anyone a wee bit tired of this?
I was tired of this shit the minute I found out about it.
You want to do something, save up. You want to make something, make it your fucking self.
This counts especially for bands. I totally agree.
Mickey wrote:(Filmmakers seem to get to the final product, however.)
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
scannest wrote:I love that Kickstarter doesn't take down any campaigns, failed or otherwise.
I like to look at this one every few weeks. It always puts a smug smile on my face:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/512 ... ref=search
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
Dinko wrote:I would have supported any "Goodbye"-song by the Gerunds. I would have paid BIG money. Just saying.
PS: Anyone else who can't log in hitting the "reply"-button?
xxxHunterxxx wrote:Dinko wrote:I would have supported any "Goodbye"-song by the Gerunds. I would have paid BIG money. Just saying.
PS: Anyone else who can't log in hitting the "reply"-button?
PayPal me 10,000 Euros and I'll email you the Gerunds' ultra-rare cover of Goodbye Girl by Squeeze.
xxxHunterxxx wrote:Goodbye Girl by Squeeze.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
Pffft wrote:I have less of a problem with this than most of our generation I guess. since labels are pretty well dead a lot of younger bands don't have the option for recording that was there for the previous generations and bands that are still active now have to bankroll recording on top of the other expenses associated with trying to survive.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
Pffft wrote:I have less of a problem with this than most of our generation I guess.
Pffft wrote:since labels are pretty well dead a lot of younger bands don't have the option for recording that was there for the previous generations and bands that are still active now have to bankroll recording on top of the other expenses associated with trying to survive.
MXV wrote:Kickstarter is the online equivalent of panhandling. Everyone starts one of those for various reasons like putting our a record, making a movie, going jogging, and taking a shit. I have never contributed to a single one and am unlikely to ever do so.
However since it seems to be all the rage I should start two kickstarters asking people to give me money to buy my girlfriend an engagement ring and to buy some expensive punk rock records that I can't afford.
Welly wrote:MXV wrote:Kickstarter is the online equivalent of panhandling. Everyone starts one of those for various reasons like putting our a record, making a movie, going jogging, and taking a shit. I have never contributed to a single one and am unlikely to ever do so.
However since it seems to be all the rage I should start two kickstarters asking people to give me money to buy my girlfriend an engagement ring and to buy some expensive punk rock records that I can't afford.
And there's me thinking you had them all by panhandling to labels.
I chipped in once. It was a friends band trying to get their 7" out. What I paid was the equivalent of what it would've cost later to buy it anyway, so it was a pre-order, and it was next to nothing, so I saw it differently.
Did anyone see Universal Records 'Vinyl Club'? It's a crowd sourcing thing for reissuing their shit. Get on it!
Welly wrote:It's a comedy theme based on the pattern of your posts over the last, er... 9 years.
SamDBL wrote:I think it's a pretty great system. It's another facet of big record labels getting kicked to the curb, which everyone seemed so gung ho about. Instead of artists having to find an investor (label) to put in thousands (or more) towards a project by guessing how many of the units will sell, yada yada... bands have cut out the middle man and go straight to their fans. If they have enough to support them, they put out a record. If they don't, they don't. No one is being forced to do anything. No risk for artists and no 'evil' corporations involved in the process of making music. It's just the bands and their fans calling the shots. Isn't that what everyone wanted all along? To now get pissy because a band has any form of outside investing is somewhat ridiculous. I'll never understand the bitterness towards the music industry by music fans. Some fans constantly act like they're the ones getting ripped off left and right. To the point that now we're saying that typically broke musicians should now front, collectively, millions of dollars (that gigantic labels that everyone 'hated' used to supply) based on speculation rather than the fans just telling them, directly, how many records they want? Puh-lease. It's real simple: If you like the band, you pay them for a record. If you don't, you don't. Supply and demand in it's purest and most efficient form.
pedro wrote:I am thinking about starting a Kickstarter campaign for tomorrow's lunch. I don't think I'll need more than $ 7 (I have a coupon for Baja Fresh) so it shouldn't be that difficult. I'll keep you updated on the campaign.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
Welly wrote:I take it you were never in a band then? Because I don't know about everyone else, but we'd just pay for practice, recording and releasing stuff ourselves when we were a 'younger band' and never expected anything else. I used to sell records to pay for practice. Asking for money never came into it. It's actually cheaper now than it's ever been to record for a start, We only ever had the option of a real studio with real rates.
It sums up the instant gratification of the age. It's also simply a way of people attempting to remove the risk factor from their 'commerce'. It's a pre-sell, it's the same as phoning in your favourite act for future product. Some bands now press 'limited' amounts of their 7" and try to make it 'rare'. We'd press 500 because it was all we could afford, because we wanted as many people to listen to it as possible within our financial constraints, that was the whole point. Not the other way around. And that time, we were all unemployed.
Limited options sold as noble endeavours. We just had limited options and got on with it. People don't need Kickstarter, they need a kick up the arse.
Welly wrote:Well my posts for one, were coming from a very different angle to this. I was talking about DIY/independent, whereas you're talking about 'fans' and labels that are clearly off any kind of radar I was referring to. You're talking about 'big record labels getting kicked to the curb', I thought this was one of the DIY ideas that came to the fore with punk, and therefore done 35+ years ago. So the battle was won then, so unless you're talking about some big mainstream star whose former major label career is now on the rocks and puts his hand out to his 'fans' for a pre-sale, I really don't get your point, sorry.
SamDBL wrote:Welly wrote:Well my posts for one, were coming from a very different angle to this. I was talking about DIY/independent, whereas you're talking about 'fans' and labels that are clearly off any kind of radar I was referring to. You're talking about 'big record labels getting kicked to the curb', I thought this was one of the DIY ideas that came to the fore with punk, and therefore done 35+ years ago. So the battle was won then, so unless you're talking about some big mainstream star whose former major label career is now on the rocks and puts his hand out to his 'fans' for a pre-sale, I really don't get your point, sorry.
I fail to see the difference, or even the relation, of whether a band is DIY and whether they have fans. Minor Threat were DIY, imo. And they had plenty of fans. In fact, throughout the years I've known plenty of local bands that never made it outside of their cities that had lots of fans. I also think that a band going directly to their fans for presales and then producing/manufacturing the release themselves is every bit as DIY as asking thier parents or squirreling away money from playing shows. The only difference is there's less risk involved because it's spread out over more (willing) people and there is less guess work as to how many people actually want this thing you're putting out. People act like this method of selling records is 'asking for money' or 'begging'. How ridiculous. An item is being bought. If I buy a video game presale, does that mean the video game company is taking a donation? I know the punk ethos is for everything to be back-breakingly difficult and done at a loss in order to be deemed earnest and sincere... but kickstarter just makes perfect sense to me.
SamDBL wrote:Welly wrote:Well my posts for one, were coming from a very different angle to this. I was talking about DIY/independent, whereas you're talking about 'fans' and labels that are clearly off any kind of radar I was referring to. You're talking about 'big record labels getting kicked to the curb', I thought this was one of the DIY ideas that came to the fore with punk, and therefore done 35+ years ago. So the battle was won then, so unless you're talking about some big mainstream star whose former major label career is now on the rocks and puts his hand out to his 'fans' for a pre-sale, I really don't get your point, sorry.
I fail to see the difference, or even the relation, of whether a band is DIY and whether they have fans. Minor Threat were DIY, imo. And they had plenty of fans. In fact, throughout the years I've known plenty of local bands that never made it outside of their cities that had lots of fans. I also think that a band going directly to their fans for presales and then producing/manufacturing the release themselves is every bit as DIY as asking thier parents or squirreling away money from playing shows. The only difference is there's less risk involved because it's spread out over more (willing) people and there is less guess work as to how many people actually want this thing you're putting out. I know the punk ethos is for everything to be back-breakingly difficult and done at a loss in order to be deemed earnest and sincere... but kickstarter just makes perfect sense to me.
SamDBL wrote:I don't think a band's financial sourcing affects the way they sound in this case. Or rather, I don't think there's a difference between a band's fans paying for a record before, or after it's manufactured in terms of artistic integrity. Imo, Black Flag's sound had nothing to do with what time frame their fans purchased their records. Like I said, I simply think a Kickstarter campaign fits perfectly into the DIY ethic. It doesn't provide more or easier money as it's the same people that'd be buying the record later on down the line. It's just a way to organize the financing in a way that keeps labels (and whatever influence they are perceived to have) out of the picture, while helping the artist get done what needs to get done with the direct involvement of fans. And I certainly don't believe a hardcore band is going to sound harder just because they have to get a job at a gas station to pay for their band's record.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
SamDBL wrote:Utterly ridiculous. Yes, enthusiasm is supposed to be the motivater for this kind of stuff. But that does not mean you have to take a loss at everything you do. The whole ethos of DIY is in place so that you don't have to beg a label to pay for everything and you didn't have their influence in your music and that you are calling all of the shots (ie. enjoying your music rather than playing strictly for some financer's wallet). That's it. Nothing about that says you personally have to lose money every time you do something. If you make enough of a fanbase on your own terms and are organized enough that a profit shows, then you are clearly still doing, artistically, what you set out to do. How silly to suggest that if you're not losing money, you're not doing it right.
Saying 'if you're good enough, a label will pick you up' pretty much contridicts every other fucking word you wrote. All of the sudden we're telling bands to 'get good enough for a label to pay for your record or shut up'. Wow. Mighty 'punk' of you.
And the whole thing about non-touring bands asking for handouts, etc. THEY ARE SELLING A PRODUCT. THEY ARE NOT GETTING FREE DONATIONS. What the fuck is so hard to understand about that? Lastly, your assertion that playing a certain kind of music is 'a young man's game' is ageist, and borderline offensive.
Pffft wrote:Most of the labels are dead... so that's no longer an option
SamDBL wrote:Pffft wrote:Most of the labels are dead... so that's no longer an option
That's the irony of this whole thing. I remember everyone bitching about 'selling out' if some band signed to a label. Now you're selling out if you don't finance everything yourself, go broke, and then break up and stop playing music all together by the time you're 30.
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