Ramones

[JGJR]

Johnny is the Chuck Berry of punk rock - a remarkably distinctive guitarist who probably never would have played if he could have found an easier way to make a living.

Spot on.

I must agree (especially because both are/were total d-bags but then again so were a lot of other talented people). Of course Johnny never filmed ladies in the bathroom, not to the best of our knowledge anyway, but otherwise yep.

[jaybird]

Been going through my periodic Ramones obssession. Been a fan since the early 80s, from their appearances on old K-Tel records comps like Rock '80... were a mainstay when I was in high school, and always a top 3 band over the last 40 years or so... That said, I will go for years without actually listening to them, and then i'll have a spell of a month or so where they are almost all i listen to.

This most recent episode was definitely kickstarted by all the 20th anniversary of Joey's death stuff in the news. Been listening to all the albums and watching old interviews and such on youtube... As others have said, the first four records are all amazing, and even well into the 80s, they were still putting out good records. My own favorite album is Subterranean Jungle... I know all the standard complaints and objections: they kicked Marky out for being a drunk and brought in a session drummer to finish the record without him, too many cover songs, the drums sound weird, etc. Still has some of their all-time great rippers like "Psychotherapy" and "Outsider", great sappy Joey girl/love songs like "My-My Kind of a Girl", and maybe my own personal favorite and funniest song in the entire catalog: "Everytime I Eat Vegetables, it Makes Me Think Of You."

What a bunch of glorious fuck-ups and misfits. None of them could do anything else BUT be RAMONES. And in so being, became absolute, one-of-a-kind legends. Were they the greatest American band ever? Only CCR comes close IMO.

May Their Memory Be Eternal.

[JGJR]

My own favorite album is Subterranean Jungle...
What a bunch of glorious fuck-ups and misfits. None of them could do anything else BUT be RAMONES. And in so being, became absolute, one-of-a-kind legends. Were they the greatest American band ever? Only CCR comes close IMO.

I thought that my favorite Ramones Lp (Pleasant Dreams) makes me an outlier, but wow that one's a real hot take. I love "Psychoterapy" and "Outsider" partly since Mania was my introduction to them back in 1990 and both songs are included on it. I couldn't get into the rest of the album due to the reasons you listed (weird drum sound, production, etc.). It's actually the only Ramones Lp I can say that about. I enjoy all of the others to one extent or another. I mostly go for the 1st 6. Of the later records, Animal Boy is my favorite, but I think Halfway to Sanity and Brain Drain are quite underrated and Too Tough to Die very overrated (probably the only other one where I'm like meh except for a few songs, actually).

[jaybird]

My own favorite album is Subterranean Jungle...
What a bunch of glorious fuck-ups and misfits. None of them could do anything else BUT be RAMONES. And in so being, became absolute, one-of-a-kind legends. Were they the greatest American band ever? Only CCR comes close IMO.

I thought that my favorite Ramones Lp (Pleasant Dreams) makes me an outlier, but wow that one's a real hot take. I love "Psychoterapy" and "Outsider" partly since Mania was my introduction to them back in 1990 and both songs are included on it. I couldn't get into the rest of the album due to the reasons you listed (weird drum sound, production, etc.). It's actually the only Ramones Lp I can say that about. I enjoy all of the others to one extent or another. I mostly go for the 1st 6. Of the later records, Animal Boy is my favorite, but I think Halfway to Sanity and Brain Drain are quite underrated and Too Tough to Die very overrated (probably the only other one where I'm like meh except for a few songs, actually).

The mid-80s records (SJ, TTTD, AB) were the first records I got into when I started becoming a serious fan in high school... those were the "current" records when I really started getting into the whole thing and buying their actual albums, as opposed to just knowing who they were from K-Tel comps, Rock and Roll High School, being on Sha Na Na, etc., so they hold a special place in my heart. That said, I don't think the drums sound that weird...but maybe that's because I'm just so used to it.

[patient_ot]

Very important band obviously but I'm just not the rabid fan that some are. I stick with the first 4 mostly. Heard bits and pieces of other stuff and thought it was fine, but don't have a burning need to rush out and buy those albums. Maybe if I was browsing a shop and they turned up cheap I might try more from their later catalog.

While we're on this topic, what's your favorite Ramones "inspired" band/album? I guess this was a trend at one point in the 90s, but other bands did a similar deal at various points in time.

I'd go with the Lurkers' Fulham Fallout.

[scannest]

While we're on this topic, what's your favorite Ramones "inspired" band/album?

Does every decent rock record and/or band since 1976 count?

[lewdd]

Very important band obviously but I'm just not the rabid fan that some are. I stick with the first 4 mostly. Heard bits and pieces of other stuff and thought it was fine, but don't have a burning need to rush out and buy those albums. Maybe if I was browsing a shop and they turned up cheap I might try more from their later catalog.

While we're on this topic, what's your favorite Ramones "inspired" band/album? I guess this was a trend at one point in the 90s, but other bands did a similar deal at various points in time.

I'd go with the Lurkers' Fulham Fallout.

That's a great album

[JGJR]

While we're on this topic, what's your favorite Ramones "inspired" band/album? I guess this was a trend at one point in the 90s, but other bands did a similar deal at various points in time.

I'd go with the Lurkers' Fulham Fallout.

That is Beggars 1, right?

Late '70s: 1st Undertones Lp (runner-up: 1st Boys Lp)
late '80s/early '90s: Screeching Weasel "Boogadaboogadaboogada" or The Queers - Love Songs for the Retarded

[version sound]

I like them, but they were not foundational for me. I heard the first album in the early ‘80s, and as a hardcore kid (literally, I was probably 10), it didn’t grab me. I’ve grown to appreciate them more over the years, but I’m still not crazy about them in the way a lot of you are.

As far as favorite Ramones influenced records, if we approach that broadly, like scannest suggested, early Misfits and Clash would have to be at the top of that list.

[patient_ot]

While we're on this topic, what's your favorite Ramones "inspired" band/album? I guess this was a trend at one point in the 90s, but other bands did a similar deal at various points in time.

I'd go with the Lurkers' Fulham Fallout.

That is Beggars 1, right?

Late '70s: 1st Undertones Lp (runner-up: 1st Boys Lp)
late '80s/early '90s: Screeching Weasel "Boogadaboogadaboogada" or The Queers - Love Songs for the Retarded

Looks like the first Lurkers single was the first single release on BB. The LP was BEGA 2, BEGA 1 being a compilation called "Streets".

My copy of the Lurkers album is a Captain Oi! CD reissue from the 90s.

Undertones first album is great. Never got into those other bands, though I knew some people that liked them.

[jaybird]

Always thought Turbonegro had a pretty good updated 21st-century take on the classic Ramones sound, but without being completely obvious clones like so many bands are ... they also have a healthy dose of AC/DC and Motörhead going on as well, so that helps too...

As a side note, I think you can make a pretty good argument that Ramones, Motörhead and AC/DC were like the reigning triumvirate of rock and roll for several decades ... bands that did what they did and were who they were without apology... pretty much everyone is a fan of at least one of these bands, if not all three at the same time.

[SamDBL]

Always thought Turbonegro had a pretty good updated 21st-century take on the classic Ramones sound, but without being completely obvious clones like so many bands are ... they also have a healthy dose of AC/DC and Motörhead going on as well, so that helps too...

As a side note, I think you can make a pretty good argument that Ramones, Motörhead and AC/DC were like the reigning triumvirate of rock and roll for several decades ... bands that did what they did and were who they were without apology... pretty much everyone is a fan of at least one of these bands, if not all three at the same time.

I’d agree. But how does Randall feel about all of this?

[jaybird]

Always thought Turbonegro had a pretty good updated 21st-century take on the classic Ramones sound, but without being completely obvious clones like so many bands are ... they also have a healthy dose of AC/DC and Motörhead going on as well, so that helps too...

As a side note, I think you can make a pretty good argument that Ramones, Motörhead and AC/DC were like the reigning triumvirate of rock and roll for several decades ... bands that did what they did and were who they were without apology... pretty much everyone is a fan of at least one of these bands, if not all three at the same time.

I’d agree. But how does Randall feel about all of this?

I've been wondering that myself. He needs to go on record here, so we'll know if his opinions are still worthy of serious consideration or not.

[lewdd]

All My Friends Are Dead - the beginning and ending of what I know or care to know about Turbonegro.....Great Song!

[SamDBL]

As I've said many times, being ensconced in Dag Nasty, ALL, Bad Brains and the like during my formative 'punk' years, I did not give a shit about the Ramones (or the Clash, or the Sex Pistols, etc). I couldn't make the connection, musically, between those foundational bands and where punk was at the time. Or the fact that they wore 'uniforms', cited a bunch of bands from the 60's as influences, were on a major lab and the fact that clueless poseurs tended to gravitate towards the Ramones and Sex Pistols right off the bat (somehow a black mark against a band to my mind in those days). These days, if I give punk the time of day, it's exclusively to those old bands from the 70's and very early 80's. I am a total Ramones convert, now. I'd place them at the top of my list of extremely important rock icons. Without which, the genre would be fucked. Right up there with Chuck Berry or Elvis or Buddy Holly. I'm super glad that I did get to see them when my friend dragged to one of their later shows in the early 90's. I also met all of them at various chance encounters. All except Johnny. Which, of course, has become my favorite. I did check out his grave a few years ago. That statue is bad fucking ass.

[jaybird]

As I've said many times, being ensconced in Dag Nasty, ALL, Bad Brains and the like during my formative 'punk' years, I did not give a shit about the Ramones (or the Clash, or the Sex Pistols, etc). I couldn't make the connection, musically, between those foundational bands and where punk was at the time. Or the fact that they wore 'uniforms', cited a bunch of bands from the 60's as influences, were on a major lab and the fact that clueless poseurs tended to gravitate towards the Ramones and Sex Pistols right off the bat (somehow a black mark against a band to my mind in those days). These days, if I give punk the time of day, it's exclusively to those old bands from the 70's and very early 80's. I am a total Ramones convert, now. I'd place them at the top of my list of extremely important rock icons. Without which, the genre would be fucked. Right up there with Chuck Berry or Elvis or Buddy Holly. I'm super glad that I did get to see them when my friend dragged to one of their later shows in the early 90's. I also met all of them at various chance encounters. All except Johnny. Which, of course, has become my favorite. I did check out his grave a few years ago. That statue is bad fucking ass.

I also remember the sort of casually dismissive attitude that they were often treated with back in the mid-to-late 80s by lots of people in the hardcore scene... not that anyone I knew actually ever hated them or anything, just that they were kinda seen as being yesterday's news by people more into the then-current 2nd-wave stuff like Dag Nasty, or ALL, Nomeansno, or whatever. I don't think it was until the early 90s when bands like Screeching Weasel and the Queers started raving about them non-stop, and doing those endless series of tributes where a band would cover a Ramones album in it's entirety that they really started to pick up in popularity again.... which is ironic, because that's right about when i stopped caring about their at-the-time "new" records/material. The last album I actually remember going out of my way to buy when it was released was Brain Drain, which i thought then and still think of today as their last "real" album. The writing was definitely on the wall by then, even though they kept at it for another 6 or 7 years with CJ.

Re: the statue... i wish the sculptor would have made it a full statue with legs... maybe that's all they could afford to do... bronze casting ain't cheap for sure.

[lewdd]

seeing that statue is on my bucket list

[earthdog70]

What happened to the End of The Century box set-delayed?

[captain2man]

On the latest episode of The Contrarians, Martin Popoff (I have like 50 of his books - I'm a fan), tries to make the case for 'Pleasant Dreams' being the best of all Ramones albums.

I mightily disagree.....but it's fun to watch knowledgeable and articulate folks try to make these types of arguments.

[lewdd]

What happened to the End of The Century box set-delayed?

Phil Spector died

[scannest]

On the latest episode of The Contrarians, Martin Popoff (I have like 50 of his books - I'm a fan), tries to make the case for 'Pleasant Dreams' being the best of all Ramones albums.

I mightily disagree.....but it's fun to watch knowledgeable and articulate folks try to make these types of arguments.

Paging xxxHunterxxx in 5, 4, 3, 2....

[JGJR]

On the latest episode of The Contrarians, Martin Popoff (I have like 50 of his books - I'm a fan), tries to make the case for 'Pleasant Dreams' being the best of all Ramones albums.

I mightily disagree.....but it's fun to watch knowledgeable and articulate folks try to make these types of arguments.

I'm with Martin; if not the greatest, it's my favorite. Thanks for the heads up on this!

[jaybird]

Spent the last few weeks on a Ramones kick, as I mentioned above... starting to subside again, probably won't seriously listen to them again for another 4 or 5 years or so.... that said, I gave every album up through Brain Drain repeated listens, and honestly... everything up to and including Too Tough To Die is pretty great in its own way... I have a really difficult time ranking them... Subterranean Jungle is my sentimental favorite, despite or maybe even because of its flaws, but as I was listening through each album up to TTTD, I would catch my self thinking: "Damn, maybe THIS one is their best album...)

Of the last three (Dee Dee era) records, I think I'd rank them as follows:

Halfway to Sanity - I like the darker, gothy feel of the lyrics and guitars, kinda like late-period TSOL or something.

Animal Boy - At the time, I was really into the more "hardcore" sound of this record, but in retrospect, I think this record sounds a lot weirder than Subterranean Jungle, which is usually the one where most people complain about the production. Johnny's guitar sounds really mid-scooped or something on a lot of the songs, really dry and hollow sounding. Still some great tunes on this one though.

Brain Drain - this was the first Ramones album where I remember feeling distinctly let down when I bought it and listened through the first time. The whole thing feels pretty uninspired and just going-through-the-motions. This was also the album/tour that I finally got to see them for the first time, and they were already well into their "play everything as fast as fucking possible" live show, and that kinda bummed me out too... I still went to see them every time they came through town after that though until they called it quits, and I was always glad I did, but man, to have been able to see them like 1980/81 at the peak of their power really must have been something else.

[lewdd]

I'm ashamed to say that I never did get to see them play live.

[jaybird]

P.S.: Note to Randie... the above clip is from the Second Chance Saloon in A2, which changed it's name to the Nectarine Ballroom and is where i saw the 2nd-to-last Black Flag show in 1986.

[scannest]

I'm ashamed to say that I never did get to see them play live.

One of the (countless!) advantages of growing up in NYC is that the Ramones were seemingly playing somewhere nearby every other weekend. I saw the first time the fall of '85 at L'Amour. My parents were okay with dropping us off at this den of iniquity because it was in Brooklyn. It had to better than Manhattan, right? Yikes. Probably saw then a dozen times between then and when Dee Dee left. Stopped when CJ joined. Seemed like a good time. They were already doing that thing were they played more songs in less time each tour.

[JGJR]

I'm ashamed to say that I never did get to see them play live.

One of the (countless!) advantages of growing up in NYC is that the Ramones were seemingly playing somewhere nearby every other weekend. I saw the first time the fall of '85 at L'Amour. My parents were okay with dropping us off at this den of iniquity because it was in Brooklyn. It had to better than Manhattan, right? Yikes. Probably saw then a dozen times between then and when Dee Dee left. Stopped when CJ joined. Seemed like a good time. They were already doing that thing were they played more songs in less time each tour.

Ramones - the only time I ever saw them was at City Gardens in '93, I think. They played there all the time, so even though it would've been easy to just say I'll catch 'em next time or something, I'm glad I went once even though the show was, to be honest, quite disappointing or the same reason jaybird said.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/ramones/ ... 5b720.html

There was no setlist or opener listed, but I figured out from this Wiki that the Bouncing Souls opened (scroll down to 11/20/1993).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R ... certs#1993

L'Amour - I went there only once about a decade later to see King Diamond with (I think) Entombed opening. It was umm, an experience. Turns out I was right. Entombed did open.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/king-dia ... 3e102.html

[version sound]

So, this is fuggin’ nuts, but I was watching a very early video of the Ramones the other day and all of a sudden, a light clicked on in my brain and I heard how much early Ramones influence there was in early Minor Threat. Fuckin’ A! I’ve been listening to both for nearly 40 years and that just clicked at that moment. I’m kind of seeing the Ramones in a whole new light now...

[lewdd]

please elaborate on that connection

[jaybird]

I think that a lot of Ramones chording patterns were pretty crucial to later hardcore bands... like listen to the opening riff on "I Don't Wanna Go Down To The Basement" and speed it up like 2 or 3x.... i think it sounds a lot like Minor Threat...




There's always been a lot of talk about how the Ramones stripped rock and roll down to its basic elements, but I think they went even further than a lot a lot of people realize in that they also did away with a lot of the blues influence in rock music, at least on the first 3 albums... like you can still hear standard "blues-y" progressions and riffs in contemporary early punk and proto-punk bands like the Stooges or the NY Dolls or the Heartbreakers, but the Ramones had these really blocky, robotic (yet still weirdly melodic) patterns and chord progressions that were not really blues-based at all. Almost like weird Euro-70s kraut/prog rock type shit like Can or something, but sped up with heavier guitars.

[version sound]

please elaborate on that connection

Had to search a bit, but here’s the clip in question:



Maybe it’s just me, but I really hear the roots of Lyle’s playing here. Speed it up a little and put Ian on vocals, and you have Minor Threat circa 1981.

[lewdd]

Funny, I hear more early era Misfits than Minor Threat, but I am not a musician so I am probably missing it.

[version sound]

Funny, I hear more early era Misfits than Minor Threat, but I am not a musician so I am probably missing it.

The Ramones we’re undoubtedly a huge influence on the early Misfits too. I just hadn’t really heard it in Minor Threat before. I think the sound quality of this particular video brings it out more. The guitar is more blown out and distorted than on the actual albums.

[scannest]

God, I love that video. I mean, just listen to 'Loudmouth'. The songwriting is so much more interesting than people give them credit for. There are actually a LOT of parts and different chords in there. It has an almost (dare I say?) complex arrangement. There is a lot going on in less than 2 minutes. People who call the simple just weren't paying close attention.

[drew]

Only got to see them twice. Once at the Old Ritz and once at the New Ritz. Their shows had become pretty violent because of the mixing of bands....DRI, The Exploited, Prong, Warzone......the fights were crazy. I never saw them with CJ who's solo albums I really dig.

[JGJR]

God, I love that video. I mean, just listen to 'Loudmouth'. The songwriting is so much more interesting than people give them credit for. There are actually a LOT of parts and different chords in there. It has an almost (dare I say?) complex arrangement. There is a lot going on in less than 2 minutes. People who call the simple just weren't paying close attention.

From seeing his handwritten lyrics, I think Dee Dee was barely literate (could be wrong, though), but he was an incredible songwriter for all of the reasons you list above.