I'VE HAD IT

[scannest]

I just saw a band cancel their tour that was scheduled to start IN MARCH because of "the recent surge of Omicron cases in the US". That is fucking ridiculous. All evidence from countries that got hit first point to a dramatic decrease in cases in the next coming weeks. And you know what - if you're vaxxed and boosted and wearing masks in crowded indoor spaces, you might still get something. And that something is likely going to feel just like a cold. The flu at worst.
I am done. If SXSW gets canceled for the 3rd year running, I'm going full Fox News on all y'all asses.
Thanks for letting me vent.

[JGJR]

I just saw a band cancel their tour that was scheduled to start IN MARCH because of "the recent surge of Omicron cases in the US". That is fucking ridiculous. All evidence from countries that got hit first point to a dramatic decrease in cases in the next coming weeks. And you know what - if you're vaxxed and boosted and wearing masks in crowded indoor spaces, you might still get something. And that something is likely going to feel just like a cold. The flu at worst.
I am done. If SXSW gets canceled for the 3rd year running, I'm going full Fox News on all y'all asses.
Thanks for letting me vent.

Gonna be real with you all. I thought when this pandemic first started and shows started getting canceled that I'd miss it a lot and I do miss it somewhat and it's been great being able to see bands again in the past 6-7 months, but I don't mind a winter break since it's as cold as a witch's tit out during this time of year and during the first 14-15 months when nothing was happening, I didn't mind it that much though I felt bad for all of the artists, venues, stores, etc. inconvenienced and directly affected by it and tried to support them as much as possible. Unless I really want to see something (which thankfully does happen), going out late is sometimes just exhausting and I prefer to stay home most nights these days. I greatly prefer when shows end early o or are even matinees/early evening ones. I must be getting old or something.

I don't know how you have the time/energy, etc. or how I used to go out 3-4 times a week sometimes in my 20s and even into my 30s, but more power to you.

As for what you actually wrote, I kinda agree and kinda don't. I can definitely see both points of view and I want this shit to end just like we all do (though if I had my druthers, I'd never commute again; WFH is amazing), but it should be the artists' choice regardless and I respect it in whatever decision they make unless they're purposely doing super-spreader events or some shit.

Who was the band btw? I'm disappointed that Best Coast canceled their tour (scheduled to start this month). I was really looking forward to seeing them after a 2-year delay. Thanks, omicron.

[gregpolard]

It's such a slippery slope. I agree with a lot of JGJR's points.

I think the thing that sucks about this whole virus is that, sure, most people who are vaxxed/boosted/careful who end up getting it will get away pretty fine with minor symptoms. The problem is that there's a percentage that can get knocked on their ass, or worse. And for those people with younger kids, especially ones who can't get vaccinated...there's a bit more risk at play. My kids are both old enough to now get boosted, so for me, the risk is somewhat low. My oldest most likely had it over Christmas break. He took a PCR test and it came back as "inconclusive".

There's certain shows I've been to where I felt "safe" but like, a straight up hardcore show with dudes piling on top of dudes and sharing a microphone covered in spit? Naw.

One Up was supposed to play the shows last year (Field Day in Philly and a Fest in Wilkes Barre) and we had to bow out because that was when Delta was surging and collectively we didn't feel safe, especially the member who has children who were not able to be vaccinated at the time due to age restrictions, etc. I'm assuming it's the same for a lot of these other bands cancelling. Ultimately, it's up to them.

[jaybird]

I think at this point, it's up to the people who are severely immuno-compromised, in high risk groups, etc., to take on the bulk of the precautions/safeguards as far as quarantining/staying home, wearing N-95 masks, etc. and let the rest of the world get back to as close as normal as we can. I'm sure it sucks for such people, but society simply cannot continue to function this way indefinitely.

[SamDBL]

I think at this point, it's up to the people who are severely immuno-compromised, in high risk groups, etc., to take on the bulk of the precautions/safeguards as far as quarantining/staying home, wearing N-95 masks, etc. and let the rest of the world get back to as close as normal as we can. I'm sure it sucks for such people, but society simply cannot continue to function this way indefinitely.

Bingo. I've had this opinion for awhile. At this point, every other person I know is coming down with it, vaxxed and boosted. I'm just waiting for my ticket to get punched and keeping my elderly mom locked up like god damn John Travolta. Time to start rolling.

[scannest]

I think at this point, it's up to the people who are severely immuno-compromised, in high risk groups, etc., to take on the bulk of the precautions/safeguards as far as quarantining/staying home, wearing N-95 masks, etc. and let the rest of the world get back to as close as normal as we can. I'm sure it sucks for such people, but society simply cannot continue to function this way indefinitely.

Yup. If you have concerns because you're high risk or someone you love is - feel free to bow out of things. But canceling everything for everyone "out of an abundance of caution" is ridiculous based on how things are right now. Show your vax card, wear your mask, and take whatever chances you're comfortable taking.
And bands saying, "I would hate for anyone to get sick because we insisted on playing a show!" Doesn't everyone take that same chance every time they attend a show? Should bands stop playing because someone might drive home drunk and crash their car? Or get the flu from the person next to them at the bar?
STATAZIT!

[gregpolard]

I remember a time when it seemed like only Morrissey cancelled gigs.

[jaybird]

Bottom-line, if you are below the age of 50, and not overweight, and up on your vaccinations/boosters your odds of becoming seriously ill and/or dying from this are very, very low. This is obviously going to be just another risk factor to consider in daily modern life, like driving on the freeway or eating lots of red meat. Time to accept the risk and deal with it, instead of ricocheting back and forth between lockdowns and panic every 6 months.

[JGJR]

Bottom-line, if you are below the age of 50, and not overweight, and up on your vaccinations/boosters your odds of becoming seriously ill and/or dying from this are very, very low. This is obviously going to be just another risk factor to consider in daily modern life, like driving on the freeway or eating lots of red meat. Time to accept the risk and deal with it, instead of ricocheting back and forth between lockdowns and panic every 6 months.

That describes a lot fewer people than you probably think. Just saying.

[SamDBL]

I think at this point, it's up to the people who are severely immuno-compromised, in high risk groups, etc., to take on the bulk of the precautions/safeguards as far as quarantining/staying home, wearing N-95 masks, etc. and let the rest of the world get back to as close as normal as we can. I'm sure it sucks for such people, but society simply cannot continue to function this way indefinitely.

Yup. If you have concerns because you're high risk or someone you love is - feel free to bow out of things. But canceling everything for everyone "out of an abundance of caution" is ridiculous based on how things are right now. Show your vax card, wear your mask, and take whatever chances you're comfortable taking.
And bands saying, "I would hate for anyone to get sick because we insisted on playing a show!" Doesn't everyone take that same chance every time they attend a show? Should bands stop playing because someone might drive home drunk and crash their car? Or get the flu from the person next to them at the bar?
STATAZIT!

I actually agree with you. Must be end times.

[jaybird]

Bottom-line, if you are below the age of 50, and not overweight, and up on your vaccinations/boosters your odds of becoming seriously ill and/or dying from this are very, very low. This is obviously going to be just another risk factor to consider in daily modern life, like driving on the freeway or eating lots of red meat. Time to accept the risk and deal with it, instead of ricocheting back and forth between lockdowns and panic every 6 months.

That describes a lot fewer people than you probably think. Just saying.

Yes, we are quickly becoming a full-on gerontocracy in this country. We are also ridiculously fat as a country. But I don't think it's fair to expect young, healthy people to continue to put their lives and futures on hold indefinitely for the old, fat people most at risk.... and should be the ones to be taking the most safeguards and precautions as a matter of their own initiative and personal responsibility. If that means Gramma and Gramps need to continue to order their groceries from amazon and not come to Thanksgiving dinner, or that fat drunks need to keep staying home and drinking instead of hitting the bars, then that's just how it is.

[jaybird]

Obesity: COVID’s Third Rail
We’re too fat to fight this virus but not allowed to talk about it.

“Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection,” the CDC has said. Obesity impairs the immune system, decreases lung capacity and reserve, and can make ventilation more difficult. As body mass index increases, so does the risk of death from COVID-19.

Last month the CDC reported that about 80 percent of those who are hospitalized or die in the U.S. because of COVID-19 are overweight or obese. If you contract the novel coronavirus, you have “50% more likelihood of dying,” a highly-regarded obesity researcher told the medical journal JAMA in an interview, saying his findings “really shook me.” Also in March, the World Obesity Federation reported that almost 90 percent of deaths with COVID-19 in the first year of the pandemic were in countries where more than half of the population is classified as overweight. COVID death rates are 10 times higher in countries where most are overweight. That means you, America!

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... hird-rail/

I know, americanconservative.lol

[JGJR]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.

[jaybird]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.

...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.

[JGJR]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.

...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.

I feel like that some point, that will likely (and hopefully) happen since we're all tired of this, and it likely and could've and should've already happened if (amongst other things) the vax rate would be higher. I feel like I'm saying the unsayable here, but it's kinda the elephant in the room.

[SamDBL]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.

...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.

I feel like that some point, that will likely (and hopefully) happen since we're all tired of this, and it likely and could've and should've already happened if (amongst other things) the vax rate would be higher. I feel like I'm saying the unsayable here, but it's kinda the elephant in the room.

If by vax rate being higher you are including the entire globe, maybe maybe not. Being that delta originated in India and Omicron is from Africa and the vaccines now seem to be absolutely ineffective against transmission... it just seems like that turn of events was pretty inevitable. As I've always thought, if your plan is that every person and government on the planet must act in unison for this to work... then your plan sucks and is totally unrealistic. Between the efficacy of the vax and the mutation of the virus to a seemingly more transmissible/less dangerous variant, I'm not sure what else people would be hoping for.

[SamDBL]

Also, I have talked to many hardcore, dyed in the wool liberals from LA and NYC no less that are pretty much echoing this attitude. Which leads me to believe that the messaging on this stuff from the ruling class is about to change very soon. I mean, if a poster on the fucking Dag board is posting this…

[kel]

Everyone I know right now with COVID is "vaxxed" and boosted.

I've traveled all over the US since getting over C19 myself (got it before it was cool, way back in Nov of 2020, and still have strong natural antibodies!) My observation is that a lot of people, no matter which side of the politics of this whole thing they might be, are getting pretty darn "What's gonna be is gonna be" and are ready to get on with their lives.

Seeing all the flip flopping on "science" and made-up-doctrinal advice by the media, medical community, etc. for the past two years has done nothing but either solidify some people's faith-based dogma, or opened other people's eyes that maybe maybe maybe the government, pharma, and media might not know all the answers.

BTW: lemme fix that for ya:

"Bottom-line, i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶5̶0̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶v̶a̶c̶c̶i̶n̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶/̶b̶o̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ your odds of becoming seriously ill and/or dying from this are very, very low."

[drew]

I’m vaxxed, boosted.....and me & the wife have Covid. We were exposed Xmas day. Most ppl I work with have it. A lot of family and friends. It sucks, I’ve had flu symptoms for a few days.

Next batch of tickets starts in February, let’s see who makes it.....

[xxxMidgexxx]

I cant go to work..
The boss is a jerk.

[kel]

I cant go to work..
The boss is a jerk.

It's like... I'm going to explode?

/I_understood_that_reference_jpg/

[Knutsen]

The question here in Berlin is, which of the lot of venues and clubs will survive. Also the bookers, promotors, stagehands, backline + event agencies. There will be a cleansing and venues will be converted into something else. I already heard that they have problems to find freelance soundguys + crew, because those preferred to get into a regular employment as an electrician, e.g. to pay the rent.

I am happy that our band got 3 open air gigs during last sommer. I can‘t see myself in a full club yet.

[fiestaware]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? :lol: Got it.

...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.

Try this rhetoric on your local hospital staff. Let us know how it goes.

[SamDBL]

The question here in Berlin is, which of the lot of venues and clubs will survive. Also the bookers, promotors, stagehands, backline + event agencies. There will be a cleansing and venues will be converted into something else. I already heard that they have problems to find freelance soundguys + crew, because those preferred to get into a regular employment as an electrician, e.g. to pay the rent.

I am happy that our band got 3 open air gigs during last sommer. I can‘t see myself in a full club yet.

Here in FL, where we bucked most of this stuff, the main thing that I see are restaurants and bars closing due to massive staff shortages. At first it was attributed to the windfall of checks the government was sending out, plus extended/boosted unemployment benefits and a moratorium forbidding evictions. But now most of that has subsided and restaurants and bars are still shutting down in record numbers. I think a lot of people hauled ass to other industries as the job market is insane right now. Maybe? There is still high unemployment, but a ton of jobs to be filled. So it’s kind of a mystery how people are currently able to opt out of working at this point.

[jaybird]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.

...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.

Try this rhetoric on your local hospital staff. Let us know how it goes.

Indeed, seems they may have some 'splainin to do:

Syracuse, N.Y. -- Gov. Kathy Hochul today asked hospitals to start clearly identifying which Covid-19 patients are being treated for the illness and which happened to test positive after coming in for another reason.

Hochul said she has spoke with some hospital officials, who said anecdotally the numbers of people who tested positive after entering the hospital for another reason could be 20% to 50% of listed Covid-19 patients. Some of those people could be asymptomatic or simply have the sniffles, she said.

http://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/202 ... itive.html

[FlexMyHead]

Unlike most of you that are unhappy with wearing a part of t shirt on your mouth, I have elderly parents that I immensely care about and so I put up with some extra bullshit in an attempt to perhaps make sure I don't pass something off to them that could kill them.

There is that quote about judging a person/society/culture by how they treat/look after the young, old, sick and poor, so that is pretty much where I am at when it comes to adjusting to not having cream cheese, Base 4 white paint and live loud music in my ear-holes.

[jaybird]

Unlike most of you that are unhappy with wearing a part of t shirt on your mouth, I have elderly parents that I immensely care about and so I put up with some extra bullshit in an attempt to perhaps make sure I don't pass something off to them that could kill them.

There is that quote about judging a person/society/culture by how they treat/look after the young, old, sick and poor, so that is pretty much where I am at when it comes to adjusting to not having cream cheese, Base 4 white paint and live loud music in my ear-holes.

Yes, you're the only one here who has elderly parents that they care about.

[SamDBL]

Unlike most of you that are unhappy with wearing a part of t shirt on your mouth, I have elderly parents that I immensely care about and so I put up with some extra bullshit in an attempt to perhaps make sure I don't pass something off to them that could kill them.

There is that quote about judging a person/society/culture by how they treat/look after the young, old, sick and poor, so that is pretty much where I am at when it comes to adjusting to not having cream cheese, Base 4 white paint and live loud music in my ear-holes.

Yes, you're the only one here who has elderly parents that they care about.

At this point in time, with all the information at hand, these kinds of judgements on morality say way more about the people casting them. Especially the fucking mask thing. It's pretty widely admitted by most experts that anything but an N95 is all but useless. So strapping a scrap of dirty cloth or paper across your face so you can continue to loudly declare yourself morally superior to others is some hilarious shit. In fact, the whole "I care about people more than you do, so I _____" line of thinking is the most nauseating aspect of this shit. What sanctimonious asshole can't figure out that people may have good reasons for disagreeing with you besides they are dumb and evil? These types are the church ladies of today.

[jaybird]

Since we're all about "trusting the science," here's some interesting data points to mull over when talking about the proper extent of COVID safety and mitigation measures:

Pandemic worriers shown to have impaired general cognitive abilities

The impairments observed may explain poor decisions about COVID-prevention measures

The COVID-19 pandemic has tested our psychological limits. Some have been more affected than others by the stress of potential illness and the confusion of constantly changing health information and new restrictions. A new study finds the pandemic may have also impaired people’s cognitive abilities and altered risk perception, at a time when making the right health choices is critically important.

Scientists at McGill University and The Neuro (Montreal Neurological Institute-Hospital) surveyed more than 1,500 Americans online from April to June, 2020. Participants were asked to rate their level of worry about the COVID-19 pandemic and complete a battery of psychological tests to measure their basic cognitive abilities like processing and maintaining information in mind. The data were then compared to results of the same tests collected before the pandemic.

For example, participants completed an information processing test where they were asked to match pairs of digits and symbols according to a fixed rule. Participants’ risk attitudes were measured using an economic decision task where they made a series of hypothetical choices between a ‘certain’ option (e.g., a sure win of $75), and a ‘risky’ option (e.g. a 25 per cent chance of winning $0 and a 75 per cent chance of winning $100).

The researchers found that those who experienced more pandemic-related worry had reduced information processing speed, ability to retain information needed to perform tasks, and heightened sensitivity to the odds they were given when taking risks. The pandemic group performed more poorly on the simple cognitive tasks than the pre-pandemic group. Also, participants in the last wave of data collection showed slower processing speed, lower ability to maintain goals in mind, and were more sensitive to risk than those in the first wave.

Interestingly, the study found that pandemic worry predicted individuals’ tendency to distort described risk levels: underweighting likely probabilities and overweighting unlikely probabilities. This suggests that worry related to COVID may have affected people’s decision-making style, which is crucial as it may influence people’s decisions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

“The basic cognitive abilities measured here are crucial for healthy daily living and decision-making,” says Kevin da Silva Castanheira, a graduate student in McGill’s Department of Psychology and the study’s first author. “The impairments associated with worry observed here suggest that under periods of high stress, like a global pandemic, our ability to think, plan, an evaluate risks is altered. Understanding these changes are critical as managing stressful situations often relies on these abilities.”

https://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/channels ... ies-335240


Just sayin'™

[kel]

Unlike most of you that are unhappy with wearing a part of t shirt on your mouth, I have elderly parents that I immensely care about and so I put up with some extra bullshit in an attempt to perhaps make sure I don't pass something off to them that could kill them.

The first couple months of this thing - before any of the CDC guidance - I wore surgical gloves, a mask, and had SUPER minimal contact with anyone. Bought into this because I got that scary SARS-esque virus a few years prior that was going around the Consumer Electronics Show I was at. Unlike the chin-mask wearing soccer moms that I see still wearing masks, I've been trained in hazmat / biological protection. I really did do what you're supposed to do in a birdflu/hazmat environment.

But... I got the Covs anyway, came to the admission that you really can't stop that signal long-term, and started living life healthy/without fear again. You're always as free as you want to be.

Now, a zillion 14-days-to-flatten-the-curve later, I note that a relative of mine that works for a major airline: company just quietly admitted/advised that their thousands of employees shouldn't wear the cloth masks corporate provided because they do more harm than good. (Which a lot of people knew and/or got infections or respiratory problems from wearing them too long.)

I care very much for my elders, and if they don't think they should go out or whatever, then 100% support them in that decision. Traveling around a lot of free states this past year, though -- I'd say that I've noticed a LOT of older people just out taking walks, shopping, going about their business, and not cowering in fear. Good for them.

Gotta smile at tough old dudes with an attitude like "If Vietnam didn't kill me with Agent Orange or Commie bullets, some flu bug ain't gonna stop me from getting to that Early Bird dinner special!" and more power to 'em. Live those golden years and enjoy life if you choose to do so. At that age, I see a lot of people choosing for themselves... whatever's gonna be, is gonna be.


I thought it was really interesting to see the approach the Amish community took. Without TV and media to trust, they just went about their business, took the hit, no shutdowns/no wrapping oneself in purell-soaked-bubblewrap, and now are having their best year ever.

[jaybird]

I care very much for my elders, and if they don't think they should go out or whatever, then 100% support them in that decision. Traveling around a lot of free states this past year, though -- I'd say that I've noticed a LOT of older people just out taking walks, shopping, going about their business, and not cowering in fear. Good for them.

Gotta smile at tough old dudes with an attitude like "If Vietnam didn't kill me with Agent Orange or Commie bullets, some flu bug ain't gonna stop me from getting to that Early Bird dinner special!" and more power to 'em. Live those golden years and enjoy life if you choose to do so. At that age, I see a lot of people choosing for themselves... whatever's gonna be, is gonna be.

This is pretty much how my parents are... and they're definitely NOT anti-vaxxer right-wing Fox-News types... very much the opposite in fact. My dad is 77 and my mom just turned 75... they've been very conscientious about getting vaccinated, mask-wearing when and where required... but they've also been very active and have traveled a lot more than I have throughout this whole thing. They've come from Vegas to Michigan to see their grandkids three times over the past 2 years, and were just staying with me over the Xmas holidays. They were all set to go on their first European cruise in a few weeks, but it got cancelled because omicron. If they can carry on more or less as usual, while maintaining a basic level of awareness and due diligence as far as getting vaccinated, even though they are in a higher risk-category because of their ages, why should I be more worked up over this whole thing than they are?

I actually had COVID last year, even as I was all hunkered down, working from home, and only going out to get the basic necessities... neither of my parents have had it, even though they've been on airplanes, traveling across the country, etc.

[FlexMyHead]

Yes, you're the only one here who has elderly parents that they care about.

Did you get an anti-sarcasm-detection vaccine as well?

[FormerLurker]

LOL, not bad.

[fiestaware]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? :lol: Got it.

...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.

Try this rhetoric on your local hospital staff. Let us know how it goes.

Indeed, seems they may have some 'splainin to do:

Weak tea.

Watching just plain folks flirt with casual social darwinism as a byproduct of their pandemic fatigue has become a real drag.

I’ve lost some friends to COVID, but I also lost friends to their own selfishness. No shaming intended here - it's just sad.

[jaybird]

So, in other words, who cares about the fat people and the aging Boomers as long as shows can happen again? Got it.

...and schools stay open, and people can travel freely, and more or less resume what's left of their normal lives, but yes, 100%. Time to move the fuck ON.

Try this rhetoric on your local hospital staff. Let us know how it goes.

Indeed, seems they may have some 'splainin to do:

Weak tea.

Watching just plain folks flirt with casual social darwinism as a byproduct of their pandemic fatigue has become a real drag.

I’ve lost some friends to COVID, but I also lost friends to their own selfishness. No shaming intended here - it's just sad.

I think it's just a matter of facing facts... lockdowns were a necessary emergency measure when no vaccine was available. As it currently stands, approximately 60% of the US population is now fully vaccinated, and all evidence shows that while the vaccines do not prevent transmission or infection, they are very effective in reducing deaths and/or the need for serious hospitalization. I also think it's evidently plain at this point that the remaining 40% who are not vaccinated have no intention of doing so. So what do we do? Continue indefinitely recurring lockdowns because 40% of the country are willful idiots? That does not seem like a reasonable, realistic or workable solution to me. If acknowledging that reality is "social darwinism" then give me my brown shirt and fascist haircut I guess.

[jaybird]

Yes, you're the only one here who has elderly parents that they care about.

Did you get an anti-sarcasm-detection vaccine as well?

Sorry, I didn't notice it buried beneath all the moral preening in the rest of your post.

[FlexMyHead]

Sorry, I didn't notice it buried beneath all the moral preening in the rest of your post.

Thanks for sharing.

You do realize that your anecdotal information about your dad climbing Mount Everest and your mom drinking out of ashtrays and both being healthy and happy was great, but means fuck all.

Last week, at my job 27 people tested positive for COVID.

You have to be intelligent enough to know that (just like religion, gun control, favorite comfort food etc) many people have an opinion that isn't going to be changed, regardless of how fearless, brave and freedom fighter-ish your courageous parents are? Right?

I know you you are an American, but try thinking more "macro" then "micro", it helps when discussing things like Global Pandemics.

If you really don't think COVID has impacted people based on them being young, old, poor or sick.....well, then I guess you aren't any of them?

I'm not really interested in debating this on a message board, if you lived near me, I'd be happy to share insults in person or something, as long as there was music in the background or something, but I just see many threads with thoughts I don't agree with that I have to say something just to see if I'm the only one that thinks that. Thankfully I have a few people on ignore so I don't have to read their bullshit anymore. Maybe do the same for me?

[jaybird]

/Wall of text

"I'm not really interested in debating this on a message board".

LOL, OK.

[SamDBL]

I don’t even know why new case rates are relevant in any of these discussions about what our operating procedure should look like. Death rates, or gtfo.

[JGJR]

I don’t even know why new case rates are relevant in any of these discussions about what our operating procedure should look like. Death rates, or gtfo.

I listened to Human for the first time the other day; tremendous.

[kel]

I think it's just a matter of facing facts... lockdowns were a necessary emergency measure when no vaccine was available.

See above Amish approach where the facts got faced in different ways, and perhaps could lend legitimacy to the debate of lockdowns weren't necessary. But that's all hypothetical: damage is done by governments and maybe it was good maybe it was bad, but there's no fruit in coulda-shoulda-woulda, other than to learn for the future and to inform us all that trusting the government is almost never agood plan.

The shots pharma is pushing don't work as advertised, proven by stats as well as by everyone on this very thread that says "Everyone I know with COVID is vaxxed and boosted".

Continue indefinitely recurring lockdowns because 40% of the country are willful idiots?

Idiots. Yep. They all must be "Idiots" with no good reasons not to get a shot that doesn't work, followed by another that doesn't work, followed by boosters that aren't boosting, but are causing CDC-admitted problems including death... A lot of people think that the idiots are the people that thump "science" and the "truth" without actually knowing it, forcing others into their medical choices through coercion and threats to their livelihoods -- then sticking to the agenda even after being proven wrong.

[jaybird]

I think it's just a matter of facing facts... lockdowns were a necessary emergency measure when no vaccine was available.

See above Amish approach where the facts got faced in different ways, and perhaps could lend legitimacy to the debate of lockdowns weren't necessary. But that's all hypothetical: damage is done by governments and maybe it was good maybe it was bad, but there's no fruit in coulda-shoulda-woulda, other than to learn for the future and to inform us all that trusting the government is almost never agood plan.

The shots pharma is pushing don't work as advertised, proven by stats as well as by everyone on this very thread that says "Everyone I know with COVID is vaxxed and boosted".

Continue indefinitely recurring lockdowns because 40% of the country are willful idiots?

Idiots. Yep. They all must be "Idiots" with no good reasons not to get a shot that doesn't work, followed by another that doesn't work, followed by boosters that aren't boosting, but are causing CDC-admitted problems including death... A lot of people think that the idiots are the people that thump "science" and the "truth" without actually knowing it, forcing others into their medical choices through coercion and threats to their livelihoods -- then sticking to the agenda even after being proven wrong.

LOL...there is zero doubt that the vaccines are extremely effective at reducing death rates and the need for extended hospitalization. Like no serious medical/scientific debate whatsoever. If people who are not otherwise immunocompromised want to continue to refuse a widely available and proven safeguard against serious illness and/or death, I do think that is their right, but I also think that yes, they are idiots.


The Amish angle is interesting, but given that the Amish are already naturally "quarantined" so to speak from wider US society as a consequence of their religious beliefs and practices, I'm not sure that the experience of that community with COVID can legitimately be extrapolated across wider US society.

[JGJR]

LOL...there is zero doubt that the vaccines are extremely effective at reducing death rates and the need for extended hospitalization. Like no serious medical/scientific debate whatsoever. If people who are not otherwise immunocompromised want to continue to refuse a widely available and proven safeguard against serious illness and/or death, I do think that is their right, but I also think that yes, they are idiots.


The Amish angle is interesting, but given that the Amish are already naturally "quarantined" so to speak from wider US society as a consequence of their religious beliefs and practices, I'm not sure that the experience of that community with COVID can legitimately be extrapolated across wider US society.

We don't often agree completely on these matters, but this is so good that I'm tempted to make it my signature. And you pretty much read my mind about the Amish. They are by and large insulated from much of the outside world (though I interacted with them weekly at farmers' markets in PA because they bring their produce and other things there) and thus their own bubble.

[jaybird]

LOL...there is zero doubt that the vaccines are extremely effective at reducing death rates and the need for extended hospitalization. Like no serious medical/scientific debate whatsoever. If people who are not otherwise immunocompromised want to continue to refuse a widely available and proven safeguard against serious illness and/or death, I do think that is their right, but I also think that yes, they are idiots.


The Amish angle is interesting, but given that the Amish are already naturally "quarantined" so to speak from wider US society as a consequence of their religious beliefs and practices, I'm not sure that the experience of that community with COVID can legitimately be extrapolated across wider US society.

We don't often agree completely on these matters, but this is so good that I'm tempted to make it my signature. And you pretty much read my mind about the Amish. They are by and large insulated from much of the outside world (though I interacted with them weekly at farmers' markets in PA because they bring their produce and other things there) and thus their own bubble.

[jaybird]

Also pretty obvious in that Amish video that the interviewer and the Amish representative are staying 6' away from each other... which is totally reasonable. the Amish rep guy also admits that everyone in his community got the corona virus after all drinking from the same Communion cup @1:50. So I'm not sure why kel thinks this is some big "gotcha" revelation... the Amish are probably generally healthier overall than the typical American, and so had less of a base-rate mortality/hospitalization rate overall as well... which makes sense to me: Healthy people who take basic precautions and preventative measures in regard to COVID can probably manage to maintain some basic semblance of everyday, pre-COVID life.

But they would be even further protected if they got vaccinated.

This seems completely uncontroversial to me.

[jaybird]

I'll make it short 'n' sweet:

Pants-wetting "LOCKDOWNS NOW AND 4 EVER" bullshit is a pile of bullshit.

Alex Jones-style anti-vax bullshit is an even bigger pile of bullshit.

Come at me.

[kel]

Also pretty obvious in that Amish video that the interviewer and the Amish representative are staying 6' away from each other... ...the Amish rep guy also admits that everyone in his community got the corona virus after all drinking from the same Communion cup @1:50. So I'm not sure why kel thinks this is some big "gotcha" revelation... the Amish are probably generally healthier overall than the typical American...

Clarification: I'm not saying it's a "gotcha" revelation. I'm noting that this particular sample of a population group had a different way of addressing the virus, and it -apparently- worked out to the same death rates as the hand-wringing crowds. That data point was just offered as an interesting alternative outcome to the trillions spent, lives wasted, anger-flames fanned, etc. of the pro-coercion/big pharma/government heavy-handedness approach that was claimed to work in the post above. Did lockdowns "work"? I don't see it in the evidence, but understand that we can't go back in time and prove either opinion out. All people will do is blame whoever is on the other side of their faith-based conclusion, and there's no fruit in that.

(Side note: Sure, Amish folks are probably on the healthier side because hard-physical-work and antibodies reasons, but... they have unusually high cholesterol and eat high fat like biscuits & gravy were going out of style. That Amish guy looked like he could stand to lose a few pounds They also regularly interact with outside civilization through markets and in-town shopping, etc. This isn't like some study of a remote island populated with crossfitters that haven't seen outsiders for decades. I'd also bet the six-foot interview distance was instigated by the reporter, not the Amish guy.)

It's an individual's choice to get shots or not, rely on natural antibodies or not, go to concerts or not, wear a mask or not, etc. - all fine.
Coercing someone else into a forced medical experiment by threatening their livelihood and freedom is evil.

In the end, while my above post was a bit rushed, I'd update to clarify that my actual hope and aim would be to promote two points:

1.) Dehumanizing fellow human population segments by dismissing them as 'idiots' is a technique to debase an enemy. This makes it easier to sell future war, slavery, denial of rights, confiscation of property, and increases the ease in escalating atrocities onto these 'subhumans'. A kind word turns away wrath and bringing civility to a debate helps one's viewpoints to be considered with respect.

2.) History often proves out that trusting the State (gov't / media / pharma) was generally more dangerous than questioning authority.

It even used to be punk to do so!

[jaybird]

Also pretty obvious in that Amish video that the interviewer and the Amish representative are staying 6' away from each other... ...the Amish rep guy also admits that everyone in his community got the corona virus after all drinking from the same Communion cup @1:50. So I'm not sure why kel thinks this is some big "gotcha" revelation... the Amish are probably generally healthier overall than the typical American...

Clarification: I'm not saying it's a "gotcha" revelation. I'm noting that this particular sample of a population group had a different way of addressing the virus, and it -apparently- worked out to the same death rates as the hand-wringing crowds. That data point was just offered as an interesting alternative outcome to the trillions spent, lives wasted, anger-flames fanned, etc. of the pro-coercion/big pharma/government heavy-handedness approach that was claimed to work in the post above. Did lockdowns "work"? I don't see it in the evidence, but understand that we can't go back in time and prove either opinion out. All people will do is blame whoever is on the other side of their faith-based conclusion, and there's no fruit in that.

(Side note: Sure, Amish folks are probably on the healthier side because hard-physical-work and antibodies reasons, but... they have unusually high cholesterol and eat high fat like biscuits & gravy were going out of style. That Amish guy looked like he could stand to lose a few pounds They also regularly interact with outside civilization through markets and in-town shopping, etc. This isn't like some study of a remote island populated with crossfitters that haven't seen outsiders for decades. I'd also bet the six-foot interview distance was instigated by the reporter, not the Amish guy.)

It's an individual's choice to get shots or not, rely on natural antibodies or not, go to concerts or not, wear a mask or not, etc. - all fine.
Coercing someone else into a forced medical experiment by threatening their livelihood and freedom is evil.

In the end, while my above post was a bit rushed, I'd update to clarify that my actual hope and aim would be to promote two points:

1.) Dehumanizing fellow human population segments by dismissing them as 'idiots' is a technique to debase an enemy. This makes it easier to sell future war, slavery, denial of rights, confiscation of property, and increases the ease in escalating atrocities onto these 'subhumans'. A kind word turns away wrath and bringing civility to a debate helps one's viewpoints to be considered with respect.

2.) History often proves out that trusting the State (gov't / media / pharma) was generally more dangerous than questioning authority.

It even used to be punk to do so!

I agree with the larger point about lockdowns. Their efficacy is mixed at best in regard to the United States... However, there is evidence that more strict and comprehensive lockdowns had better results in other countries, but such drastic measures would be a complete non-starter here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN2842WS

I also agree that the Amish do have some contact with wider society through farmer's markets and the like... however they generally do not engage in many of the activities that the average American does as far as things like concerts, mass sporting events, protests, political rallies(lol), going to bars/restaurants and the like, that are more likely routes for respiratory disease transmission. They are also known to be somewhat reluctant to avail themselves of modern medical treatments, vaccination schedules, regular testing, etc., so who really knows what the actual data are in regard to that demographic? But again, it's a mixed bag, and I think it's unlikely that you can draw firm conclusions either way regarding the Amish community and their experience with COVID-19.

As for my usage of the term 'idiot" for people who still refuse to get vaccinated at this late date, I think it's a basic, convenient shorthand for expressing related descriptors such as "short-sighted", "foolish" "selfish", "pig-headed/stubborn" etc. Perhaps "idiot" is too harsh, but I'm open to any/all of the other options I've listed. I'm flexible. But simply as a matter of message-board debate ethics, I do think "idiot" is well-within the accepted bounds of typical internet discourse.

And while it is admirable and worthwhile to regularly question authority on matters of grave import concerning civil liberties, public health and the like, there does eventually come a time when the weight of evidence starts to conclusively tip the scales in one direction or another. I think it's plain to see that the weight of evidence is firmly and clearly on the side of the benefits of getting vaccinated against COVID-19. Or, as another noted internet pundit has astutely observed; "Facts don't care about your feelings".

[Knutsen]

I appreciate the way this topic is discussed here.

[FormerLurker]

I agree with the larger point about lockdowns. Their efficacy is mixed at best in regard to the United States... However, there is evidence that more strict and comprehensive lockdowns had better results in other countries, but such drastic measures would be a complete non-starter here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN2842WS

I also agree that the Amish do have some contact with wider society through farmer's markets and the like... however they generally do not engage in many of the activities that the average American does as far as things like concerts, mass sporting events, protests, political rallies(lol), going to bars/restaurants and the like, that are more likely routes for respiratory disease transmission. They are also known to be somewhat reluctant to avail themselves of modern medical treatments, vaccination schedules, regular testing, etc., so who really knows what the actual data are in regard to that demographic? But again, it's a mixed bag, and I think it's unlikely that you can draw firm conclusions either way regarding the Amish community and their experience with COVID-19.

As for my usage of the term 'idiot" for people who still refuse to get vaccinated at this late date, I think it's a basic, convenient shorthand for expressing related descriptors such as "short-sighted", "foolish" "selfish", "pig-headed/stubborn" etc. Perhaps "idiot" is too harsh, but I'm open to any/all of the other options I've listed. I'm flexible. But simply as a matter of message-board debate ethics, I do think "idiot" is well-within the accepted bounds of typical internet discourse.

And while it is admirable and worthwhile to regularly question authority on matters of grave import concerning civil liberties, public health and the like, there does eventually come a time when the weight of evidence starts to conclusively tip the scales in one direction or another. I think it's plain to see that the weight of evidence is firmly and clearly on the side of the benefits of getting vaccinated against COVID-19. Or, as another noted internet pundit has astutely observed; "Facts don't care about your feelings".

Famed statistical pundit Ben Prytherch wrote some posts making these exact same points.