Black Flag

[xxxMidgexxx]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

[jaybird]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

I saw the 2nd-to-last date of this tour, at the Nectarine Ballroom in Ann Arbor, MI, June 26th 1986. Before the show, I stood in line behind C'el at the Burger King around the corner from the club. I don't remember what he ordered, but I think I just had a large unsweetened iced tea and a small order of fries.

I don't have a Black flag tattoo, but I agree Kira was their best bassist.

[JGJR]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

I saw the 2nd-to-last date of this tour, at the Nectarine Ballroom in Ann Arbor, MI, June 26th 1986. Before the show, I stood in line behind C'el at the Burger King around the corner from the club. I don't remember what he ordered, but I think I just had a large unsweetened iced tea and a small order of fries.

I don't have a Black flag tattoo, but I agree Kira was their best bassist.

She's got the 10 1/2!

Just chiming in to say whenever that era comes up that Who's Got the 10 1/2? is one of my favorite live albums ever; it's just the best.

[jaybird]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

I saw the 2nd-to-last date of this tour, at the Nectarine Ballroom in Ann Arbor, MI, June 26th 1986. Before the show, I stood in line behind C'el at the Burger King around the corner from the club. I don't remember what he ordered, but I think I just had a large unsweetened iced tea and a small order of fries.

I don't have a Black flag tattoo, but I agree Kira was their best bassist.

She's got the 10 1/2!

Just chiming in to say whenever that era comes up that Who's Got the 10 1/2? is one of my favorite live albums ever; it's just the best.

x2

[JGJR]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

I saw the 2nd-to-last date of this tour, at the Nectarine Ballroom in Ann Arbor, MI, June 26th 1986. Before the show, I stood in line behind C'el at the Burger King around the corner from the club. I don't remember what he ordered, but I think I just had a large unsweetened iced tea and a small order of fries.

I don't have a Black flag tattoo, but I agree Kira was their best bassist.

She's got the 10 1/2!

Just chiming in to say whenever that era comes up that Who's Got the 10 1/2? is one of my favorite live albums ever; it's just the best.

x2

It's one of two albums (the other being Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death) that at 15/16, really got me heavily into hardcore/punk. I still get all sorts of feels whenever I hear it. I don't even have a copy at the moment, though. I wish the vinyl wasn't missing songs and had been pressed as a double, but what can you do? It's very much a cassette album for me, though.

[jaybird]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

I saw the 2nd-to-last date of this tour, at the Nectarine Ballroom in Ann Arbor, MI, June 26th 1986. Before the show, I stood in line behind C'el at the Burger King around the corner from the club. I don't remember what he ordered, but I think I just had a large unsweetened iced tea and a small order of fries.

I don't have a Black flag tattoo, but I agree Kira was their best bassist.

She's got the 10 1/2!

Just chiming in to say whenever that era comes up that Who's Got the 10 1/2? is one of my favorite live albums ever; it's just the best.

x2

It's one of two albums (the other being Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death) that at 15/16, really got me heavily into hardcore/punk. I still get all sorts of feels whenever I hear it. I don't even have a copy at the moment, though. I wish the vinyl wasn't missing songs and had been pressed as a double, but what can you do? It's very much a cassette album for me, though.

Yeah, probably the cassette/album I listened to the most when I was a kid too.... I wish i still had it... I still have some of my old cassettes, but I bum out when i think of how many just got lost/eaten by my tape deck/fucked up over the years. People shit on cassettes these days - and even back then as well - but they were the main medium through which I first experienced most of the bands of that era.

[xxxMidgexxx]

I think I just had a large unsweetened iced tea and a small order of fries.

I only drink unsweetened ice tea. The sugary shit makes me barf.

I wonder if C'el had the Big Mac....

Oh wait. They don't sell Big Macs at Burger King, though they totally should.

[xxxMidgexxx]

Oh...BTW...I TOTALLY f'N LOVE Die Kreuzen's Gone Away EP.

I THINK its my 2nd favorite of all their songs after 'These Days'

[jaybird]

Oh...BTW...I TOTALLY f'N LOVE Die Kreuzen's Gone Away EP.

I THINK its my 2nd favorite of all their songs after 'These Days'

Their cover of "Seasons of Wither" + the Necros Tangled Up made me re-consider/fall in love with 70s Aerosmith.

[captain2man]

RIP C'el....the only dead Black Flagger.

[jaybird]

RIP C'el....the only dead Black Flagger.

That is kinda weird, when you consider how many people were in the band and the sort of chaos and overall degeneracy that characterized their early years... the guy who was in the band for maybe the shortest period of time at the very tail end of their run was the first to check out.

[xxxMidgexxx]

Oh...BTW...I TOTALLY f'N LOVE Die Kreuzen's Gone Away EP.

I THINK its my 2nd favorite of all their songs after 'These Days'

Their cover of "Seasons of Wither" + the Necros Tangled Up made me re-consider/fall in love with 70s Aerosmith.

ME TOO!!!!!!! LOL.....Embarrassingly!


Die Kreuzen's cover of Seasons of Wither is VERY VERY close to the original. Almost indistinguishable.

[xxxMidgexxx]

I still like Whos Got the 10 1/2 plenty. Loved it when it came out, though its a sparse sounding album.

[xxxHunterxxx]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

You should have seen them on the “My War” Tour, Mudge. Fortunately, you can read my scintillating account of the Philly show in the new, NYT best-selling book “Where the Wild Gigs Were.”

[Mark T.]

Is it cool to start liking Black Flag again?

[matt]

Is it cool to start liking Black Flag again?

[xxxMidgexxx]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

You should have seen them on the “My War” Tour, Mudge. Fortunately, you can read my scintillating account of the Philly show in the new, NYT best-selling book “Where the Wild Gigs Were.”

I built the Philly venues. Glad you had fun there.

[version sound]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> mid 80s Black Flag and Necros

[xxxHunterxxx]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> mid 80s Black Flag and Necros

Does anybody actually dispute that?

[version sound]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> mid 80s Black Flag and Necros

Does anybody actually dispute that?

The My War was an incredible and influential record that proved who was really Punk Rock and who was just a poseur crowd would, I’m sure. For Black Flag, “mid 80s” really means “mid 82 and beyond.” The Necros were still decent for a year or two after that, so “mid 80s is a bit of a compromise.

[scannest]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> most everything

FIXED

[version sound]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> most everything

FIXED

I think their 80s/90s comeback kind of fucked up their legacy. Most people think “Love in an Elevator” or “Janie’s got a Gun” rather than “Dream On” or “Sweet Emotion” when they think of Aerosmith these days. The 80s/90s stuff isn’t bad as radio and MTV friendly pop, but it’s pretty damn silly and not anywhere near as good as their initial run.

[scannest]

I think their 80s/90s comeback kind of fucked up their legacy. Most people think “Love in an Elevator” or “Janie’s got a Gun” rather than “Dream On” or “Sweet Emotion” when they think of Aerosmith these days. The 80s/90s stuff isn’t bad as radio and MTV friendly pop, but it’s pretty damn silly and not anywhere near as good as their initial run.

I remember thinking PUMP was pretty terrific, although I haven't listened in ages. I also think ROCK IN A HARD PLACE is really good, much better than its general reputation. The problem came down to those massively popular power ballads they co-wrote with people like Diane Warren. Those things were pretty terrible and impossible to avoid.

[version sound]

Looking at their stuff in Apple Music, it looks like they were actually solid for much longer than I remembered. Everything up to and including Done With Mirrors is pretty good. Honestly, all I’ve heard from the later stuff is the hits, so the album tracks might be better than I’m giving them credit for…

[JGJR]

Anyone into Black Flag? I like most of their stuff. I especially enjoyed seeing them on the My War and In My Head tours.

I even have a Black Flag tattoo to commemorate Kira being their best bassist.

I saw the 2nd-to-last date of this tour, at the Nectarine Ballroom in Ann Arbor, MI, June 26th 1986. Before the show, I stood in line behind C'el at the Burger King around the corner from the club. I don't remember what he ordered, but I think I just had a large unsweetened iced tea and a small order of fries.

I don't have a Black flag tattoo, but I agree Kira was their best bassist.

She's got the 10 1/2!

Just chiming in to say whenever that era comes up that Who's Got the 10 1/2? is one of my favorite live albums ever; it's just the best.

x2

It's one of two albums (the other being Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death) that at 15/16, really got me heavily into hardcore/punk. I still get all sorts of feels whenever I hear it. I don't even have a copy at the moment, though. I wish the vinyl wasn't missing songs and had been pressed as a double, but what can you do? It's very much a cassette album for me, though.

Yeah, probably the cassette/album I listened to the most when I was a kid too.... I wish i still had it... I still have some of my old cassettes, but I bum out when i think of how many just got lost/eaten by my tape deck/fucked up over the years. People shit on cassettes these days - and even back then as well - but they were the main medium through which I first experienced most of the bands of that era.

Excellent collection and commentary! I had a few of those myself, like Allroy Saves and Give Me Convenience, but mostly I had dubs of a lot of that stuff in high school (before buying much of it on vinyl and CD as an adult) since I did a lot of tape trading/copying back then and couldn't afford to buy many cassettes or records and I didn't even have a CD player until 1994.

So, yeah, for that reason and for the fact that it was the primary medium on which I discovered and listened to music until I got into punk and thus into vinyl in the early '90s until I bought more and more records and eventually CDs and fewer tapes. Sadly, the only survivors of my '80s and '90s cassette collections (both store-bought and dubs) are my copies of The Damned's Machine Gun Etiquette (late '80s reissue on Emergo/Roadrunner with my friend Jack Rabid's liner notes) and my copy of the Bad Brains' ROIR yellow tape, which my friend Andy gave to me in the hallway between classes during my junior/his senior year or HS.

So where did the rest of it all go? Well at some point in the '90s, I got rid of a bunch of '80s metal/hard rock type stuff (forget how) as well as some of the hardcore demos and other odds and ends I'd collected while I kept others (regret getting rid of some of that stuff, particularly the Ashes demo and some other HC things like Beyond that I had on cassette back then, but I digress). After about another decade of not listening to tapes that much and with the transition to digital/mp3/streaming (which has actually been around since the early '00s; I started using Rhapsody then when it was amazing and kinda like what Spotify is now), I decided to just put a bunch out on my stoop in West Philly and my friend David ended up taking many of them. That also includes a lot of live stuff, particularly Elvis Costello shows, that I had collected in the mid to late '90s on cassette. The store-bought stuff was mostly punk stuff and 120 Minutes type stuff I collected in the early '90s.

Anyway, I still managed to keep a few dozen old tapes over the years and bought some cassette-only releases (and had labels send me a few as well). I put most of that stuff in storage and (again, very long story that I won't go into here) now that stuff is lost, but thankfully I did manage to keep those Damned and Bad Brains tapes here along with a few other more modern things (some Vivian Girls related stuff).

As a result partly of not having very many tapes and driving an old car that still has a deck, I've actually started collecting them again in the last year. Now I have a few dozen and most are relatively new acquisitions. Here's a recent pic of my tape collection. The only player I have besides the car deck is an old analog tape recorder I used to use primarily for interviews until I got a digital one about 9 years ago. Now, it's a Walkman, though I rarely use it. A friend gave me an old Marantz deck recently, but it needs work and I plan to take it in soon (I know a guy in West Philly who can fix anything).



It's been fun rediscovering the passion I once had for this format (and of course some of the music though some of it is stuff I have in other formats, some multiple, but again I digress), but I've also come to accept its limitations as well, like when the Whitesnake tape in question stopped playing/popped out of my car deck as well as the warbling/hissing/wear on a few other used ones. Thankfully, most of the ones I've bought recently are super cheap and play-through. Some even sound great on that deck and probably on headphones, too. I haven't listened to the Bread one yet and the deck in my car unfortunately is broken now, but thankfully the CD tray/player works just fine.

I also definitely have my friend Greg to thank for turning me onto cassette collecting again, even in a limited capacity since I still prefer vinyl and CDs. I now get (again) that it all has its place. And if anyone has the Subculture (pre-Shades Apart) demo or the Ashes "Serenade" tape/demo, holler! Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk.

P.S. I'm also impressed you have Lo-Fi at Society High on cassette; only seen that one on CD; great album. I miss Pete (we were acquaintances/friends in Philly). Did All's "Dot" EP ever come out on cassette (checking Discogs; )? That's my favorite of those EPs they did and maybe my favorite non-Allroy's Revenge release by ALL ever. I remember buying Slip It In on cassette for my 17th birthday and I had Who's Got the 10 1/2? on cassette later on when my initial dubbed copy (with DRI's great Thrash Zone album on the other side) got lost when I was mowing the lawn or raking leaves or doing something in my yard, but didn't have those other BF titles on cassette. I love seeing this stuff.

Oh and my son is really into the Bad Brains tape, the faster songs specifically, and so I bought him a copy of the new reissue on cassette. At first, he was making fun of me for still playing cassettes, but he's now fascinated with that tape in particular. Yay!

Notes: the one between the R.E.M. cassettes and Springsteen cassettes is Shudder to Think's Pony Express Record. The white tape between Jesus Jones and La Sera is Daniel Johnston's Yip Jump Music reissue, which comes from Greg, as do all of the R.E.M. tapes (thanks again) and the Dinosaur Jr (though the tape inside is actually Without a Sound; haven't listened yet). The one at the very end of the 2nd row is a great mix tape from our very own version sound!

[JGJR]

Oh...BTW...I TOTALLY f'N LOVE Die Kreuzen's Gone Away EP.

I THINK its my 2nd favorite of all their songs after 'These Days'

Their cover of "Seasons of Wither" + the Necros Tangled Up made me re-consider/fall in love with 70s Aerosmith.

Was Tangled Up the live album? I had that one on cassette, too; got it out of the same bargain bin in my hometown mall store that I also got the (much much better) Jettison (Naked Raygun) and Words and Days (Jones Very) when I was 17. That era turned me off of the Necros for many years, plus the early stuff being impossible to find/hear until the internet era.

[JGJR]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> mid 80s Black Flag and Necros

Does anybody actually dispute that?

'70s Aerosmith is great, of course, but yeah I definitely would. BF (any era) means way more to me personally. Mid '80s Necros, though, oof.

[JGJR]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> most everything

FIXED

Great band but like your Bowie take, way more of a singles/hot tracks type band to me than an albums band even in the golden era. Fire away.

[JGJR]

I remember thinking PUMP was pretty terrific, although I haven't listened in ages.

This. I think Pump is their last good/listenable album. I liked it a lot at the time, but also haven't listened in decades. I check out with Get a Grip. That stuff is terrible.

[JGJR]

Looking at their stuff in Apple Music, it looks like they were actually solid for much longer than I remembered. Everything up to and including Done With Mirrors is pretty good. Honestly, all I’ve heard from the later stuff is the hits, so the album tracks might be better than I’m giving them credit for…

I'll go to bat kinda for the 2 after that, but do yourself a favor and stop there lol. I wonder if that stripped-down blues covers album they did in 2004 is any good, though.

[xxxMidgexxx]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> mid 80s Black Flag and Necros

Does anybody actually dispute that?

'70s Aerosmith is great, of course, but yeah I definitely would. BF (any era) means way more to me personally. Mid '80s Necros, though, oof.

I like Aerosmith up to 1979. But calling them better than 80's Black Flag is myopic and just plain silly.

[JGJR]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> mid 80s Black Flag and Necros

Does anybody actually dispute that?

'70s Aerosmith is great, of course, but yeah I definitely would. BF (any era) means way more to me personally. Mid '80s Necros, though, oof.

I like Aerosmith up to 1979. But calling them better than 80's Black Flag is myopic and just plain silly.

Thank you for being the voice of reason here.

[DelGriffith]

Curious if we can get back to the Black Flag talk?

[version sound]

70s Aerosmith >>>>>> mid 80s Black Flag and Necros

Does anybody actually dispute that?

'70s Aerosmith is great, of course, but yeah I definitely would. BF (any era) means way more to me personally. Mid '80s Necros, though, oof.

I like Aerosmith up to 1979. But calling them better than 80's Black Flag is myopic and just plain silly.

Perhaps, but it’s also just a fact. Black Flag up through the TV Party EP (and that one only for the b-sides), hell yass. After that, they could have driven The Van off a cliff Young Ones style, and it would have been fine (from a musical perspective - obviously, it would have been a personal tragedy).

[xxxMidgexxx]

Curious if we can get back to the Black Flag talk?

Why bother.

[Hal]

I wish the vinyl wasn't missing songs and had been pressed as a double, but what can you do? It's very much a cassette album for me, though.

I just picked up the vinyl a couple of years back. Hadn't heard it since my cassette copy from high school. I didn't realize there were missing tracks. Just cross-referenced on Discogs. I'll be damned

[JGJR]

I wish the vinyl wasn't missing songs and had been pressed as a double, but what can you do? It's very much a cassette album for me, though.

I just picked up the vinyl a couple of years back. Hadn't heard it since my cassette copy from high school. I didn't realize there were missing tracks. Just cross-referenced on Discogs. I'll be damned

I forgot to add earlier that the extra tracks were later reissued on the "Annihilate This Week" 12" if memory serves.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1453840 ... -This-Week

[scannest]

Since we're talking about Aerosmith, it bears mentioning that Black Flag from SLIP IT IN through to the end was trying really hard to sound like '70s hard rock and doing a pretty lame job of it.

[JGJR]

Since we're talking about Aerosmith, it bears mentioning that Black Flag from SLIP IT IN through to the end was trying really hard to sound like '70s hard rock and doing a pretty lame job of it.

On the contrary, I think they were one of the better hardcore/punk bands to try that style. I think most were awful at it, tbh.

[jaybird]

Since we're talking about Aerosmith, it bears mentioning that Black Flag from SLIP IT IN through to the end was trying really hard to sound like '70s hard rock and doing a pretty lame job of it.

On the contrary, I think they were one of the better hardcore/punk bands to try that style. I think most were awful at it, tbh.

I always thought hey were really good at channeling 70s metal like Black Sabbath & Deep Purple into their sound on stuff like "Modern Man" and so forth, but much less successful at their supposed attempt(s) at King Crimson-type prog rock & free jazz on Process/In My Head.

[pedro]

The first time I heard "Drinking and Driving" I fell over laughing.

[version sound]

The first time I heard "Drinking and Driving" I fell over laughing.

We really need a “like” button for times like this.

[version sound]

Since we're talking about Aerosmith, it bears mentioning that Black Flag from SLIP IT IN through to the end was trying really hard to sound like '70s hard rock and doing a pretty lame job of it.

On the contrary, I think they were one of the better hardcore/punk bands to try that style. I think most were awful at it, tbh.

I always thought hey were really good at channeling 70s metal like Black Sabbath & Deep Purple into their sound on stuff like "Modern Man" and so forth, but much less successful at their supposed attempt(s) at King Crimson-type prog rock & free jazz on Process/In My Head.

The music is fine. It’s Henry I really don’t like. He was good when he was trying to be Dez and with his own band after BF broke up, but his vocals with BF starting with the ‘82 demos just rub me the wrong way.

[xxxMidgexxx]

The first time I heard "Drinking and Driving" I fell over laughing.

And what happened when you sobered up?

[pedro]

The first time I heard "Drinking and Driving" I fell over laughing.

And what happened when you sobered up?

I had better things to do than sit around and fuck my head or hang out with the living dead. I didn't snort white shit up my nose or pass out at the shows. I didn't even think about speed. I just didn't need it. I didn't sit around and smoke dope because I knew could cope. I laughed at the thoughts of both eating quaaludes and sniffing glue. I stayed in touch. I did however use a crutch, when I broke my big toe.

[xxxMidgexxx]

The first time I heard "Drinking and Driving" I fell over laughing.

And what happened when you sobered up?

I had better things to do than sit around and fuck my head or hang out with the living dead. I didn't snort white shit up my nose or pass out at the shows. I didn't even think about speed. I just didn't need it. I didn't sit around and smoke dope because I knew could cope. I laughed at the thoughts of both eating quaaludes and sniffing glue. I stayed in touch. I did however use a crutch, when I broke my big toe.

Oh.
Well, I'm sure Rollins would appreciate you getting some yuks out of a song he wrote as a result of losing his friend Razzle in a drunken driving accident at the hands of none other than Vince Neil.

But whatevs. As long as it's all in good fun....

[SamDBL]

Since we're talking about Aerosmith, it bears mentioning that Black Flag from SLIP IT IN through to the end was trying really hard to sound like '70s hard rock and doing a pretty lame job of it.

On the contrary, I think they were one of the better hardcore/punk bands to try that style. I think most were awful at it, tbh.

I always thought hey were really good at channeling 70s metal like Black Sabbath & Deep Purple into their sound on stuff like "Modern Man" and so forth, but much less successful at their supposed attempt(s) at King Crimson-type prog rock & free jazz on Process/In My Head.

They were such a confusing band. Honestly, the only stuff I'd listen to now would be the mid-period My War/Slip It In era. I still can't figure out if some of those lyrics were satire, or if we were witnessing the mental decline of Greg Ginn in real time.

[FlexMyHead]

I grew up in Europe and, because of my age, I didn't get to see Black Flag. Not even during the "My War" tour.
I did get to see him in Heidelberg, Germany at the Schwimmbadd Music Club in November of 1989. They didn't play any Black Flag songs that night, not even one of the shitty ones.
Rollins was actually making small jokes during the set and seemed in a good mood that night, however I approached him before they started playing while he was doing random stretches/kicks/karate looking shit and holy fucking shit did he quickly make it known he had no time for an over-excited Black Flag fan boy to pepper him with questions about a past he had no interest in revisiting. Fair enough.

I remember their cover of "Do It" that night really hit me, at that point I had never heard the Pink Fairies and just thought the lyrics were so D.C./Dischord punk and PMA! It was/is my motto when I find myself being a slack motherfucker, which is pretty often unfortunately.

Here is a photo of me getting dangerous close to Rollins at that Heidelberg show!\

[pedro]

I was unaware that on top of fronting Motley Crue, Vince Neil was forced to work 40 hours a week at some supposedly dead end job that forced him to DRINK! DRINK! DRINK! Regardless, it’s an awful song. And the sound effects are truly hysterical.

If it makes you feel any better, I think the song Clapton wrote about his kid is awful too.

[xxxMidgexxx]