So, Tobi Vail is a Fucking Idiot

[scannest]

Apparently the shitty state of the world today means that no one can make art that isn't directly trying to confront the shitty state of the world today. And you can't do that with...lemme check...um, effects pedals?

"Can someone explain to my why people who play guitar have decided to revive shoegaze/dream pop and embrace dumb retro shit like Weezer in an era filled with violence, economic inequality, and abortion bans? The guitar pedal industrial complex is not the sound of the revolution."

From her Twitter account.
https://twitter.com/mstobivail/status/1 ... 8255389697

Oh, and apparently only replies from folks she follows are allowed. I guess she's okay with that sort of echo chamber.

[version sound]

Not worried about actual nazis, just people with big pedalboards. I’d say that her concerns are somewhat misdirected.

[FormerLurker]

I have no idea who this is.

[matt]

I have no idea who this is.

Why do you hate women?

[gregpolard]

I guess this is a bad place to say that my Newbury Comics exclusive copies of two different Bikini Kill records ("Yeah Yeah Yeah" & "Singles") came today.

[xxxMidgexxx]

Who??

[SamDBL]

I'm genuinely shocked that someone on this board sees (or would bring up) this for how fucking dumb it is. I'm also simultaneously shocked that one would miss the obvious logical conclusion of this moronic line of thought. Meaning, to people that are so obsessed with this idiocy that they consider roads and weather to be racist and misogynistic, why would any inanimate object or completely unrelated concept be off the table?

And for everyone wondering who this person is, she's a member of the most historic-game-changing-first-ever-amazingly-stunning-and-courageous-groundbreaking band that musically sucks and was barely a blip on anyone's radar at the time. But is headlining major festivals and getting documentaries made about them, now. Specifically based on dipshit gimmickry exactly like this, actually!

[jaybird]

I'm genuinely shocked that someone on this board sees (or would bring up) this for how fucking dumb it is. I'm also simultaneously shocked that one would miss the obvious logical conclusion of this moronic line of thought. Meaning, to people that are so obsessed with this idiocy that they consider roads and weather to be racist and misogynistic, why would any inanimate object or completely unrelated concept be off the table?

And for everyone wondering who this person is, she's a member of the most historic-game-changing-first-ever-amazingly-stunning-and-courageous-groundbreaking band that musically sucks and was barely a blip on anyone's radar at the time. But is headlining major festivals and getting documentaries made about them, now. Specifically based on dipshit gimmickry exactly like this, actually!

I think she's probably more famous/noteworthy for her choice of deodorant and having fucked Kurt Cobain for a few months.

P.S.: IPSIYTHNOOBK

[xxxMidgexxx]

oh dear

[gregpolard]

Lotta subtle and not so subtle misogyny in this thread

[jaybird]

Lotta subtle and not so subtle misogyny in this thread

[gregpolard]

Lotta subtle and not so subtle misogyny in this thread

Saying that she's more famous for her deodorant & who she slept with rather than her musical contributions is a weird flex. I stand by my statement.

[jaybird]

Lotta subtle and not so subtle misogyny in this thread

Saying that she's more famous for her deodorant & who she slept with rather than her musical contributions is a weird flex. I stand by my statement.

She was second banana in Bikini Kill after Kathleen Hanna... I maintain her use of Teen Spirit™ deodorant is far, far more culturally significant than anything she ever did in Bikini Kill or since.

It's also great that she's bitching about new bands embracing older genres like shoegaze, while fresh off the festival cash-cow nostalgia circuit, as Sam pointed out.

I guess i can understand why she seems kinda bitter.

[gregpolard]

I'm more curious if she's referencing a specific band or what....

Just seems like a weird thing (for her) to be upset about.

[scannest]

Bear in mind that anyone who thinks that the "sound of the revolution" circa 2021 will have anything to do with a guitar (processed or not) is fucking delusional. If there is anyone who has a chance of winning over 'hearts and minds' on the subjects Tobi claims to care about, it's going to be the Taylor Swifts and Beyoncés of the world. They could actually mobilize fans behind a cause, if they were motivated to do so.

[patient_ot]

Not worried about actual nazis, just people with big pedalboards. I’d say that her concerns are somewhat misdirected.

Big understatement. I would also encourage people that play guitar and buy pedal effects to get stuff used. People upgrade this stuff all the time, switch stuff, sell stuff because they need money, and using lightly used gear like that keeps stuff out of landfills.

[xxxHunterxxx]

I’m finding it hard to get too worked up about this. Twitter seems to exist solely for people to blast their half-baked ideas and opinions into the ether. Her tweet — which I read as somewhat tongue-in-cheek/trollish — fits right in.

Also, more power to anybody that can make money playing music these days. I sure wish I could (or, at least not lose money).

[JGJR]

I’m finding it hard to get too worked up about this. Twitter seems to exist solely for people to blast their half-baked ideas and opinions into the ether. Her tweet — which I read as somewhat tongue-in-cheek/trollish — fits right in.

Also, more power to anybody that can make money playing music these days. I sure wish I could.

Pretty much this. I just think what she wrote is silly, but whatever. This nonsense of also part of why I'm not on Twitter, etc. Disclaimer: BK fan since '92 or so.

[jaybird]

I’m finding it hard to get too worked up about this. Twitter seems to exist solely for people to blast their half-baked ideas and opinions into the ether. Her tweet — which I read as somewhat tongue-in-cheek/trollish — fits right in.

Also, more power to anybody that can make money playing music these days. I sure wish I could.

Pretty much this. I just think what she wrote is silly, but whatever. This nonsense of also part of why I'm not on Twitter, etc. Disclaimer: BK fan since '92 or so.

Totally agreed on twitter... I cannot fathom why that platform is as popular as it is among "celebrities" ... seems like everyone on that site is always rolling the dice on destroying their careers in 240 characters every time they post.

[xxxMidgexxx]

Who????

[jaybird]

Who????

[version sound]

FIGHT THE REAL ENEMY!

[FlexMyHead]

I don't even really understand the "take", and I thought maybe it was a bad attempt at humor (of the Ian Svenonious variety), but it appears they doubled-down on it in a later post, so I guess they were actually serious and/or trying to make a "statement". Obviously I think it's moronic and nonsensical. What a weird fucking thing to say and/or feel the need to put on twitter.

Just like you all fuck with Dubar, I think this person is fair game when they say something dumb but of course I'm not going to attack her for being a woman or what she accomplished/brought to the music world (which was a lot), that is some caveman/meathead shit.

Anyhoo, speaking of guitar pedals, I was on Youtube earlier this week and stumbled across this incredible looking video (for being 52 years old) and the guitar pedal/playing in this blows the fuck out of pretty much everything. I had never seen the footage or was even aware of the background/movie so I enjoyed it. Maybe you will also?

[xxxMidgexxx]

Also, more power to anybody that can make money playing music these days. I sure wish I could (or, at least not lose money).

Oh really?
I just bought not 1, but 2 copies of the Gerunds 2xLP, bub. AND I DON'T EVEN OWN A TURNTABLE.

And how many Dot Dash albums are there? 7? 8? with a 9th in pre-production?

So you'll forgive me if I have serious doubts about you not getting rich.

[SamDBL]

Y’know, I always make fun of modern Christian music because the music is viewed only as a means to market a message. If any musical depth or artistry occurs, it’s a fluke. I feel the same way about bands like bikini kill. I think they suck on pretty much every level, musically. If you like their songs, that’s on you. But they can’t play a lick, and they’re not doing anything unique besides being female (which isn’t that unique). And there is absolutely no way they would have as much clout as they do if they were a quartet of fat dudes playing the exact same music. So, in essence, they are exactly like a Christian band. The music is way secondary to the message they are peddling. As a musician, I don’t have one fucking ounce of respect for bands like that. Her notoriety is built on a gimmick on par with Gwar. No one ought to take her opinions on music seriously because she is not a serious musician. The reason this tweet looks like it was aothored by a person with some sort of deficiency that doesn’t quite ‘get’ the concept of music is because it was.

[drew]

Y’know, I always make fun of modern Christian music because the music is viewed only as a means to market a message. If any musical depth or artistry occurs, it’s a fluke. I feel the same way about bands like bikini kill. I think they suck on pretty much every level, musically. If you like their songs, that’s on you. But they can’t play a lick, and they’re not doing anything unique besides being female (which isn’t that unique). And there is absolutely no way they would have as much clout as they do if they were a quartet of fat dudes playing the exact same music. So, in essence, they are exactly like a Christian band. The music is way secondary to the message they are peddling. As a musician, I don’t have one fucking ounce of respect for bands like that. Her notoriety is built on a gimmick on par with Gwar. No one ought to take her opinions on music seriously because she is not a serious musician. The reason this tweet looks like it was aothored by a person with some sort of deficiency that doesn’t quite ‘get’ the concept of music is because it was.

I disagree with this 100%. Just because you play in a “punk-rock” band where you guys can actually play your instruments doesn’t make other types of “punk” some sort of bullshit.
And, this is Twitter, where folks make quick, outlandish at times statements.
I think I get where she is coming from also.
We are in a time where we can really use some “message-music” and to see young bands being influenced by WEEZER, one of the all-time worst piece of shit bands ever is disappointing.
When you put layers of effects, I.e. QUICKSAND - you lost some immediacy of the music and it’s exactly a “message”
So she wants to see more artists fighting for what’s right? I’m ok with that.
Playing festivals doesn’t make a difference.
And to say that ppl like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé is better served to get young ppl motivated is ok but not for folks like me.
I don’t know one single thing about pop stars. I need my vitriol from young rockers..

That’s my morning opinion for today.

[version sound]

Speaking of Hendrix, there is no reason you can’t play with pedals and communicate a message at the same time. As for the “retro” bit, guitar rock is retro, regardless of what you play.

[jaybird]

there is no reason you can’t play with pedals and communicate a message at the same time.

Seriously... that's pretty much Tom Morello's standard M.O.

[SamDBL]

Y’know, I always make fun of modern Christian music because the music is viewed only as a means to market a message. If any musical depth or artistry occurs, it’s a fluke. I feel the same way about bands like bikini kill. I think they suck on pretty much every level, musically. If you like their songs, that’s on you. But they can’t play a lick, and they’re not doing anything unique besides being female (which isn’t that unique). And there is absolutely no way they would have as much clout as they do if they were a quartet of fat dudes playing the exact same music. So, in essence, they are exactly like a Christian band. The music is way secondary to the message they are peddling. As a musician, I don’t have one fucking ounce of respect for bands like that. Her notoriety is built on a gimmick on par with Gwar. No one ought to take her opinions on music seriously because she is not a serious musician. The reason this tweet looks like it was aothored by a person with some sort of deficiency that doesn’t quite ‘get’ the concept of music is because it was.

I disagree with this 100%. Just because you play in a “punk-rock” band where you guys can actually play your instruments doesn’t make other types of “punk” some sort of bullshit.
And, this is Twitter, where folks make quick, outlandish at times statements.
I think I get where she is coming from also.
We are in a time where we can really use some “message-music” and to see young bands being influenced by WEEZER, one of the all-time worst piece of shit bands ever is disappointing.
When you put layers of effects, I.e. QUICKSAND - you lost some immediacy of the music and it’s exactly a “message”
So she wants to see more artists fighting for what’s right? I’m ok with that.
Playing festivals doesn’t make a difference.
And to say that ppl like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé is better served to get young ppl motivated is ok but not for folks like me.
I don’t know one single thing about pop stars. I need my vitriol from young rockers..

That’s my morning opinion for today.

Nah. The punk genre has pretty much become worthless due to this attitude. The idea that one need not be a virtuoso to be in a band has morphed into some notion that sucking ass is a feature instead of a bug. If youre too lazy to learn how to play better, you should at least spend time on the creative side of things so that you are bringing something somewhat new to the table (Wire, the Ramones, etc). BK does neither. They sound like a million other bands. Their big contribution to music is being comprised of sassy females. It's nothing to get so cocky about that they feel entitled to lecture everyone on what kind of music needs to be played on what kind of instruments. I mean, if they want to do master class on exploiting the current political climate to make a bunch of money, fine. But actual music opinions? They are the furthest from being qualified. Fyi, Weezer blows them away on every front. Fact.

[JGJR]

Y’know, I always make fun of modern Christian music because the music is viewed only as a means to market a message. If any musical depth or artistry occurs, it’s a fluke. I feel the same way about bands like bikini kill. I think they suck on pretty much every level, musically. If you like their songs, that’s on you. But they can’t play a lick, and they’re not doing anything unique besides being female (which isn’t that unique). And there is absolutely no way they would have as much clout as they do if they were a quartet of fat dudes playing the exact same music. So, in essence, they are exactly like a Christian band. The music is way secondary to the message they are peddling. As a musician, I don’t have one fucking ounce of respect for bands like that. Her notoriety is built on a gimmick on par with Gwar. No one ought to take her opinions on music seriously because she is not a serious musician. The reason this tweet looks like it was aothored by a person with some sort of deficiency that doesn’t quite ‘get’ the concept of music is because it was.

I disagree with this 100%. Just because you play in a “punk-rock” band where you guys can actually play your instruments doesn’t make other types of “punk” some sort of bullshit.
And, this is Twitter, where folks make quick, outlandish at times statements.
I think I get where she is coming from also.
We are in a time where we can really use some “message-music” and to see young bands being influenced by WEEZER, one of the all-time worst piece of shit bands ever is disappointing.
When you put layers of effects, I.e. QUICKSAND - you lost some immediacy of the music and it’s exactly a “message”
So she wants to see more artists fighting for what’s right? I’m ok with that.
Playing festivals doesn’t make a difference.
And to say that ppl like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé is better served to get young ppl motivated is ok but not for folks like me.
I don’t know one single thing about pop stars. I need my vitriol from young rockers..

That’s my morning opinion for today.

Thank you for the reasoned response (you, too, flexmyhead). I agree strongly with the vast majority of this except I actually enjoy Taylor Swift and Weezer (up to the 3rd album only).

[FlexMyHead]

I disagree with this 100%. Just because you play in a “punk-rock” band where you guys can actually play your instruments doesn’t make other types of “punk” some sort of bullshit.
And, this is Twitter, where folks make quick, outlandish at times statements.
I think I get where she is coming from also.
We are in a time where we can really use some “message-music” and to see young bands being influenced by WEEZER, one of the all-time worst piece of shit bands ever is disappointing.
When you put layers of effects, I.e. QUICKSAND - you lost some immediacy of the music and it’s exactly a “message”
So she wants to see more artists fighting for what’s right? I’m ok with that.
Playing festivals doesn’t make a difference.
And to say that ppl like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé is better served to get young ppl motivated is ok but not for folks like me.
I don’t know one single thing about pop stars. I need my vitriol from young rockers..

That’s my morning opinion for today.

I think Bikini Kill were great and important. At the time they were around I didn't quite get it, but I didn't get many things. I think the fact people still care/talk about them shows that. People that get angry about them being popular or important are so cringe. Seems like sour grapes to me. I still don't listen to them that often, but the made huge strides toward inclusion and bringing another voice/viewpoint to the (punx) table.

Again, I don't use/have Twitter, but my thing is that this comment just sounds so dumb. There are all TYPES of bands. Why do certain bands HAVE to sing about politics or whatever.

If she wants to see more artists fight for what is right, how about starting with her own current band. I'm not even making this up but this quote is from a member of her own band:

The song writing is extremely collaborative and pretty much all of our lyrics are just sentences picked out of conversations the three of us had together, or movies that we've watched together, things like that. It feels very much like a documentation or manifestation of us hanging out.

LOL. How fucking revolutionary! I can just imagine her backstage " Okay, tonight is the night. During our song about when we were watching "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" together, when we get to the bridge and talk about the cool things we talking about when nobody is around, the kids in the audience are going to FINALLY get it and start fucking shit up and stabbing the security guards and turning over the tables and shitting on the walls! Tonight is the night the revolution begins!!!!!!! But first let's play the song about how my car makes a funny sound when I turn left".

[jaybird]

If she wants to see more artists fight for what is right, how about starting with her own current band.

This gets to the heart of the matter. If you're going to bitch about newer bands being 'uncreative' and/or not 'radical' enough for your liking, well, it's pretty hard to take from someone who has spent the last several years raking in the filthy lucre by rockin' to the oldies for 50-year old Riot-M(o)mms. When was their last record, like 20 years ago? Maybe if BK actually put out new material to register their righteous objections to everything these days, I would take the complaint a little more seriously.

[SamDBL]

Somehow it's ok to rag on Weezer for being boring. But not ok to point out that bikini kill were a shitty band that did absolutely nothing new except exploit the riot girl thing to the Max. That's not a musical contribution. Sorry. Not important and certainly not good. If they spewed their bullshit *and* the music wasn't so generic and amateurish, that'd be one thing.
But yeah... they are plainly admitting that musicality takes a backseat to messaging. Which implies even they know their music sucks except as a vehicle for bullshit. And they want other bands to follow suit what a scam. Fuck off. But they are laughing all the way to bank with this moronic drivel. That's enviable, I suppose.

[JGJR]

I disagree with this 100%. Just because you play in a “punk-rock” band where you guys can actually play your instruments doesn’t make other types of “punk” some sort of bullshit.
And, this is Twitter, where folks make quick, outlandish at times statements.
I think I get where she is coming from also.
We are in a time where we can really use some “message-music” and to see young bands being influenced by WEEZER, one of the all-time worst piece of shit bands ever is disappointing.
When you put layers of effects, I.e. QUICKSAND - you lost some immediacy of the music and it’s exactly a “message”
So she wants to see more artists fighting for what’s right? I’m ok with that.
Playing festivals doesn’t make a difference.
And to say that ppl like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé is better served to get young ppl motivated is ok but not for folks like me.
I don’t know one single thing about pop stars. I need my vitriol from young rockers..

That’s my morning opinion for today.

I think Bikini Kill were great and important. I think the fact people still care/talk about them shows that. People that get angry about them being popular or important are so cringe. Seems like sour grapes to me. I still don't listen to them that often, but the made huge strides toward inclusion and bringing another voice/viewpoint to the (punx) table.

Again, I don't use/have Twitter, but my thing is that this comment just sounds so dumb. There are all TYPES of bands. Why do certain bands HAVE to sing about politics or whatever.

If she wants to see more artists fight for what is right, how about starting with her own current band. I'm not even making this up but this quote is from a member of her own band:

The song writing is extremely collaborative and pretty much all of our lyrics are just sentences picked out of conversations the three of us had together, or movies that we've watched together, things like that. It feels very much like a documentation or manifestation of us hanging out.

LOL. How fucking revolutionary! I can just imagine her backstage " Okay, tonight is the night. During our song about when we were watching "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" together, when we get to the bridge and talk about the cool things we talking about when nobody is around, the kids in the audience are going to FINALLY get it and start fucking shit up and stabbing the security guards and turning over the tables and shitting on the walls! Tonight is the night the revolution begins!!!!!!! But first let's play the song about how my car makes a funny sound when I turn left".

GREAT response (particularly the part I emphasized) and you had me completely until that last paragraph.I've been a fan of BK since '92 and reflexively get pissed off when they get dismissed routinely. It happens a lot less often these days, but obviously, there are still naysayers (as there always are, but it's just so boring). I just can't bring myself to care if a group is revolutionary "enough" or whatever and don't think music has to be anything. It just is, you know? I just want to enjoy things. I appreciated the WEGG reference, though.

[FlexMyHead]

....I've been a fan of BK since '92 and reflexively get pissed off when they get dismissed routinely. It happens a lot less often these days, but obviously, there are still naysayers (as there always are, but it's just so boring). I just can't bring myself to care if a group is revolutionary "enough" or whatever and don't think music has to be anything. It just is, you know? I just want to enjoy things. I appreciated the WEGG reference, though.

With my numerous spelling errors, grammatical lapses and lack of clarity in my posts I don't blame you, but I was talking about "girlSperm" in my quote and reference to fukn shit up, NOT Bikini Kill.

girlSperm have a song where the chorus goes:

Do you have any spare change?
What is your last name?
How do you spell that?

This is a band Tobi is in, write lyrics for and was playing in at least until 2018.
This is the same person that wishes more bands would write political lyrics.

[jaybird]

LOL

Two of that band total amateurs. Hanna is a good hype man. But her persona is such a diy nonsense dilettante. A big idea they cannot convey, because they suck. That’s all! Back to Paris couture, because frocks don’t trigger me. Ce vai!”

Hole bassist Melissa Auf der Maur: Courtney did a fake cat hiss, like a joke. Like, “We’re at war” kind of a thing , like “Sss!” . . . making a weird joke in passing. Next thing you know, there’s this explosion of arguing. Maybe a shove, I can’t remember. Kathleen Hanna screamed at the top of her lungs: “I challenge you to a feminist debate in any university in America!” I was like, “What is this?” It was hilarious.

https://pitchfork.com/news/courtney-lov ... nion-news/

https://www.stereogum.com/1823361/lolla ... rama/news/

[JGJR]

....I've been a fan of BK since '92 and reflexively get pissed off when they get dismissed routinely. It happens a lot less often these days, but obviously, there are still naysayers (as there always are, but it's just so boring). I just can't bring myself to care if a group is revolutionary "enough" or whatever and don't think music has to be anything. It just is, you know? I just want to enjoy things. I appreciated the WEGG reference, though.

With my numerous spelling errors, grammatical lapses and lack of clarity in my posts I don't blame you, but I was talking about "girlSperm" in my quote and reference to fukn shit up, NOT Bikini Kill.

girlSperm have a song where the chorus goes:

Do you have any spare change?
What is your last name?
How do you spell that?

This is a band Tobi is in, write lyrics for and was playing in at least until 2018.
This is the same person that wishes more bands would write political lyrics.

I get your point, but I just don't think it's important or relevant enough to take her to task for that despite the contradiction. I like the gSp album the few times I've listened (keep meaning to pick it up), FWIW, but haven't really paid attention to its lyrics yet.

I was more agreeing with you defending BK.

[JGJR]

I've held off on this, but no longer. I think I tell this story every time BK or Hanna comes up here. I met Kathleen at some art opening/exhibit opening in Soho (I think) a long time ago in the early '00s. I think it was for a show called Unmade Beds or maybe another one about female artists like Yoko Ono who were overlooked due to who their partners were. It was a long time ago and I had the program for it, but it probably got lost.

Anyway, she is the total opposite of everything you fuckers probably think she is, at least in person and at events that aren't shows of hers. I really liked the brief amount of time I got to spend in her presence.

[FlexMyHead]

I get your point, but I just don't think it's important or relevant enough to take her to task for that despite the contradiction. I like the gSp album the few times I've listened (keep meaning to pick it up), FWIW, but haven't really paid attention to its lyrics yet.

I was more agreeing with you defending BK..

I actually can't remember how they sound but that lyric stood out for reasons kinda like Shudder To Think's "Ten Spot" back when it came out me and my dumb ass friends would have 2m conversations in which we would just go back and forth with STT absurd lyrics and think it was the most amusing thing in the world.

Again, my point is that band DON'T have to write something they don't feel educated, compelled, comfortable, willing, moved to write about. I like all sorts of music/lyrics when it comes to punk rock or whatever. I just thought it was kinda strange for her to call out others when, pretty recently, she released music with lyrics that didn't fit the narrative.

I mean, if Tomas from Strike Anywhere had said that he wished more bands would write lyrics that had a personal politics slant, I'd STILL think it was a bad/pointless take, but at LEAST his band lyrics matches what he is saying. Does that make sense?

I'm not anti-Tobi's bands or lyrics, but the take and the fact that they seem to miss the fact they don't even live up to themselves. Like the parent that says "Do I say, not as I do" that shit just makes me shake my head.

[jaybird]

I've held off on this, but no longer. I think I tell this story every time BK or Hanna comes up here. I met Kathleen at some art opening/exhibit opening in Soho (I think) a long time ago in the early '00s. I think it was for a show called Unmade Beds or maybe another one about female artists like Yoko Ono who were overlooked due to who their partners were. It was a long time ago and I had the program for it, but it probably got lost.

Anyway, she is the total opposite of everything you fuckers probably think she is, at least in person and at events that aren't shows of hers. I really liked the brief amount of time I got to spend in her presence.

I'm sure she's a nice lady when she's not in her aggro-feminist stage persona.


As long as this thread is now morphing into an all-purpose Bikini Kill discussion, I've always wondered who Hanna was complaining about on Mike Watt's Ball-Hog or Tugboat? record... Vedder? Grohl? Dando? Rollins?

[JGJR]

I get your point, but I just don't think it's important or relevant enough to take her to task for that despite the contradiction. I like the gSp album the few times I've listened (keep meaning to pick it up), FWIW, but haven't really paid attention to its lyrics yet.

I was more agreeing with you defending BK..

I actually can't remember how they sound but that lyric stood out for reasons kinda like Shudder To Think's "Ten Spot" back when it came out me and my dumb ass friends would have 2m conversations in which we would just go back and forth with STT absurd lyrics and think it was the most amusing thing in the world.

Again, my point is that band DON'T have to write something they don't feel educated, compelled, comfortable, willing, moved to write about. I like all sorts of music/lyrics when it comes to punk rock or whatever. I just thought it was kinda strange for her to call out others when, pretty recently, she released music with lyrics that didn't fit the narrative.

I mean, if Tomas from Strike Anywhere had said that he wished more bands would write lyrics that had a personal politics slant, I'd STILL think it was a bad/pointless take, but at LEAST his band lyrics matches what he is saying. Does that make sense?

I'm not anti-Tobi's bands or lyrics, but the take and the fact that they seem to miss the fact they don't even live up to themselves. Like the parent that says "Do I say, not as I do" that shit just makes me shake my head.

I agree with all of this, but again, I don't know if Tobi was just trolling or just being obnoxious or maybe a little column A and column B and again, Twitter isn't for moi. I used to take those hot takes more seriously, but now I just couldn't care less (except now, clearly, lol). I'll say this much, though.

She's right about tons of modern indie bands being influenced by Weezer to the point where I've been using off-hand terms like "Weezer-core" for a specific genre of guitar rock like later Wavves, JEFF the Brotherhood (who I like, particularly live), etc. over the last decade. I wouldn't have guessed that in '94 (or that BK would be headlining theaters/large clubs in this century) when they were regarded as a mainstream gimmick type band (of course I heard their 1st few albums a few years later and was immediately disspelled of that notion, but that's for another post), but that's how it goes sometimes.

In any case, thanks for clarifying. I particularly appreciated the little aside about the lyrics in some of the songs on Ten Spot. I still have those conversations occasionally with a good friend who's also a huge STT fan. That album, Funeral, and GYG helped get me through the last few years of high school, so...

[xxxMidgexxx]

CAN WE ALL JUST CALM THE FUCK DOWN????

[jaybird]

CAN WE ALL JUST CALM THE FUCK DOWN????

You're the only one who seems to be yelling, sir.

[JGJR]

Thanks bigly for the inspo, kiddies, since I love reconnecting with favorites from my teen/college years.

[SamDBL]

I also had a real-life run-in with one of the members of this band and she was a stark, raving psycho ass wipe. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the band sucks horse cock.

[FormerLurker]

I've held off on this, but no longer. I think I tell this story every time BK or Hanna comes up here. I met Kathleen at some art opening/exhibit opening in Soho (I think) a long time ago in the early '00s. I think it was for a show called Unmade Beds or maybe another one about female artists like Yoko Ono who were overlooked due to who their partners were. It was a long time ago and I had the program for it, but it probably got lost.

Anyway, she is the total opposite of everything you fuckers probably think she is, at least in person and at events that aren't shows of hers. I really liked the brief amount of time I got to spend in her presence.

I'm sure she's a nice lady when she's not in her aggro-feminist stage persona.


As long as this thread is now morphing into an all-purpose Bikini Kill discussion, I've always wondered who Hanna was complaining about on Mike Watt's Ball-Hog or Tugboat? record... Vedder? Grohl? Dando? Rollins?

Best part of that record.

[jaybird]

I've held off on this, but no longer. I think I tell this story every time BK or Hanna comes up here. I met Kathleen at some art opening/exhibit opening in Soho (I think) a long time ago in the early '00s. I think it was for a show called Unmade Beds or maybe another one about female artists like Yoko Ono who were overlooked due to who their partners were. It was a long time ago and I had the program for it, but it probably got lost.

Anyway, she is the total opposite of everything you fuckers probably think she is, at least in person and at events that aren't shows of hers. I really liked the brief amount of time I got to spend in her presence.

I'm sure she's a nice lady when she's not in her aggro-feminist stage persona.


As long as this thread is now morphing into an all-purpose Bikini Kill discussion, I've always wondered who Hanna was complaining about on Mike Watt's Ball-Hog or Tugboat? record... Vedder? Grohl? Dando? Rollins?

Best part of that record.

Who gets your vote as the Mystery #Metoo-er?

I like "Piss-Bottle Man" and "The Kids of Today..."

[FormerLurker]

I think the whole thing was a bit.

[jaybird]

I think the whole thing was a bit.

If it was, that would raise my opinion of KH by an order of magnitude or three

[FormerLurker]

NGL, her voice on that thing drives me wild. Like those humiliation videos. I'm a total sub.