Floating Points + Pharaoh Sanders - Promises

[version sound]

Sick jams, bro!

[version sound]

https://floatingpoints.bandcamp.com/album/promises

[lewdd]

I have not gotten into meditation jazz...yet

[drew]

Very cool. Thx.

[version sound]

Best record of 2021.

[JGJR]

Best record of 2021.

High praise; I love Pharoah Sanders, but have yet to pick this up; been seeing it a lot in the bins lately and am tempted. Your review puts it near the top of the want list now.

[version sound]

Best record of 2021.

High praise; I love Pharoah Sanders, but have yet to pick this up; been seeing it a lot in the bins lately and am tempted. Your review puts it near the top of the want list now.

The closest thing I could compare it to is some of the more meditative Alice Coltrane stuff. This is really one song broken up into several movements. It’s got an almost background electronic element with PS’s beautiful playing and really nice orchestration on top. I’m not even sure I would strictly call it jazz. It’s almost Eno-esque in a way.

[patient_ot]

Best record of 2021.

High praise; I love Pharoah Sanders, but have yet to pick this up; been seeing it a lot in the bins lately and am tempted. Your review puts it near the top of the want list now.

It's nothing like a regular Sanders record. It's basically a minimal ambient thing with Sanders guesting here and there. It's good, but just be aware there are high percentage of defective copies out there. My own copy was badly warped. Might try another or just get the CD.

[version sound]

It's nothing like a regular Sanders record. It's basically a minimal ambient thing with Sanders guesting here and there. It's good, but just be aware there are high percentage of defective copies out there. My own copy was badly warped. Might try another or just get the CD.

After reading up on the vinyl, I opted for the CD. The DR seems to be pretty decent, and this is the kind of thing where any surface noise is going to be very annoying.

[patient_ot]

It's nothing like a regular Sanders record. It's basically a minimal ambient thing with Sanders guesting here and there. It's good, but just be aware there are high percentage of defective copies out there. My own copy was badly warped. Might try another or just get the CD.

After reading up on the vinyl, I opted for the CD. The DR seems to be pretty decent, and this is the kind of thing where any surface noise is going to be very annoying.

Good move, and yes the music isn't ideal for vinyl, and especially not defect-ridden vinyl.

[scannest]

Can I use this thread as a chance to talk about how fucked record pressing is right now? I know someone who is working with one of the most respected, longest running vinyl manufacturers in the US. Test pressings came back with a defect. They were told that if the problem was with the stampers, the company should be able to fix that and start the run relatively soon. But if new lacquers are required, the record will likely not be delivered until...2023.

[lewdd]

These delays and quality issues with vinyl are going to create a resurgence for CDs for those that want something in physical form.

[lewdd]

Just read this...

https://recordstoreday.com/NewsItem/9878

[patient_ot]

These delays and quality issues with vinyl are going to create a resurgence for CDs for those that want something in physical form.

I don't know that it will create tons of new CD listeners per se, but limited edition CDs have been a thing on Bandcamp for years now. Not every small label or artist can afford to make vinyl.

I could see LP sized art books with a digital download or CD becoming a thing for certain bands/labels.

[patient_ot]

Can I use this thread as a chance to talk about how fucked record pressing is right now? I know someone who is working with one of the most respected, longest running vinyl manufacturers in the US. Test pressings came back with a defect. They were told that if the problem was with the stampers, the company should be able to fix that and start the run relatively soon. But if new lacquers are required, the record will likely not be delivered until...2023.

Yeah, I've heard similar things from a number of sources. I would not want to have a record made right now. Too much rushing to clear the backlog which means more defects.

[xxxMidgexxx]

oh?

[drew]

Just read this...

https://recordstoreday.com/NewsItem/9878

No David Crosby & Graham Nash??? Well, fuck you record store day!

[scannest]

Yeah, I've heard similar things from a number of sources. I would not want to have a record made right now. Too much rushing to clear the backlog which means more defects.

More food for thought - I suggested that they release CDs/downloads, alongside a pre-sale for the vinyl. They said that it was up to their label, and labels were very reluctant to do this because they make so much more money off vinyl than any other format. Labels are afraid if they make CDs available 6-9 months before they can ship records, people might just choose the CD or download and be done with it. Maybe you just provide an immediate digital download to anyone who pre-orders the vinyl? I dunno what the answer is.

[patient_ot]

More food for thought - I suggested that they release CDs/downloads, alongside a pre-sale for the vinyl. They said that it was up to their label, and labels were very reluctant to do this because they make so much more money off vinyl than any other format. Labels are afraid if they make CDs available 6-9 months before they can ship records, people might just choose the CD or download and be done with it. Maybe you just provide an immediate digital download to anyone who pre-orders the vinyl? I dunno what the answer is.

There was an article recently where someone from a major claimed they lose 30-40% of vinyl sales if they don't have vinyl ready to go on the regular album release date. I'm not sure if the same would hold true for all independent projects, but certainly there is so much stuff out there vying for consumer $ and attention. It's not surprising that small labels often feel pressured to make FOMO releases to generate sales.

Re: the pre-order w/download thing - many labels, particularly those that operate on Bandcamp, already do this. One issue is the amount of time before the preorder actually ships. There is nothing stopping a customer from filing a PayPal claim while they are waiting for that preorder - especially if the target release date isn't met.

[JGJR]

I slept on this for far too long, but finally listened last night and am obsessed with it now. Holy shit. You weren't kidding, VS. It's one of those immediate "I absolutely love this" feelings that I rarely get. Shivers. I think I'm going to take my chances with a vinyl copy since it seems like the later (more recent) pressings have fewer manufacturing errors/defects, but can always get the CD. I think I want both.

[lewdd]

I just found a very high quality FLAC version of this at my local internet store - 24/44.1kHz

[version sound]

I slept on this for far too long, but finally listened last night and am obsessed with it now. Holy shit. You weren't kidding, VS. It's one of those immediate "I absolutely love this" feelings that I rarely get. Shivers. I think I'm going to take my chances with a vinyl copy since it seems like the later (more recent) pressings have fewer manufacturing errors/defects, but can always get the CD. I think I want both.

I could listen to it on repeat all day.

If you pick up the vinyl, please report back. I bought the CD, but I’d still love to have the vinyl if I can get a decent copy. It’s definitely one of those records where any surface noise would be intrusive. Along similar lines, I’m jonesing for a vinyl copy of The Moon and the Melodies, but it’s pretty pricey used, and I wouldn’t want to drop $40 on a “VG+” copy and find that it was over-graded (which is relatively common on Discogs and eBay.

[patient_ot]

I slept on this for far too long, but finally listened last night and am obsessed with it now. Holy shit. You weren't kidding, VS. It's one of those immediate "I absolutely love this" feelings that I rarely get. Shivers. I think I'm going to take my chances with a vinyl copy since it seems like the later (more recent) pressings have fewer manufacturing errors/defects, but can always get the CD. I think I want both.

I have one of the recent copies pressed at RTI. The initial copies were pressed at Pallas. At any rate, mine was badly warped and had some noise on one track. Not happy. Up to you if you want to roll the dice.

[patient_ot]

If you pick up the vinyl, please report back. I bought the CD, but I’d still love to have the vinyl if I can get a decent copy. It’s definitely one of those records where any surface noise would be intrusive. Along similar lines, I’m jonesing for a vinyl copy of The Moon and the Melodies, but it’s pretty pricey used, and I wouldn’t want to drop $40 on a “VG+” copy and find that it was over-graded (which is relatively common on Discogs and eBay.

If you want a properly graded vinyl copy of M&M, buy a near mint one from a reputable Japanese seller. It won't be cheap, but you'll get what you paid for. I'm not bothering with vinyl for that album as I doubt it would sound any better than the original CD mastering, which is pretty much perfect.

[version sound]

If you want a properly graded vinyl copy of M&M, buy a near mint one from a reputable Japanese seller. It won't be cheap, but you'll get what you paid for. I'm not bothering with vinyl for that album as I doubt it would sound any better than the original CD mastering, which is pretty much perfect.

Maybe I’ll just stick with the CD. I have everything else by the Cocteau Twins up to HOLV on vinyl. After that, things get dicey. Originals are crazy expensive, and I’ve only heard bad things about the reissues. I’ve been crazy lucky so far; I bought all of them used, and they are all in shockingly good shape. Some of them look freaking new. #CTblessed

[patient_ot]

Maybe I’ll just stick with the CD. I have everything else by the Cocteau Twins up to HOLV on vinyl. After that, things get dicey. Originals are crazy expensive, and I’ve only heard bad things about the reissues. I’ve been crazy lucky so far; I bought all of them used, and they are all in shockingly good shape. Some of them look freaking new. #CTblessed

You got lucky there. I rarely see old copies of their records in the wild. When I do, they usually have issues and aren't worth the asking price. One of my favorite bands ever but it's hard to beat the sound on non-remastered CDs.

My issue with the vinyl reissues is that many of them were cheaply done, and some of them were reportedly sourced from the bad digital remasters that Guthrie did (which I dislike). So you basically get a bad remaster cheaply thrown to wax. Common these days actually.

[JGJR]

I slept on this for far too long, but finally listened last night and am obsessed with it now. Holy shit. You weren't kidding, VS. It's one of those immediate "I absolutely love this" feelings that I rarely get. Shivers. I think I'm going to take my chances with a vinyl copy since it seems like the later (more recent) pressings have fewer manufacturing errors/defects, but can always get the CD. I think I want both.

I could listen to it on repeat all day.

If you pick up the vinyl, please report back. I bought the CD, but I’d still love to have the vinyl if I can get a decent copy. It’s definitely one of those records where any surface noise would be intrusive. Along similar lines, I’m jonesing for a vinyl copy of The Moon and the Melodies, but it’s pretty pricey used, and I wouldn’t want to drop $40 on a “VG+” copy and find that it was over-graded (which is relatively common on Discogs and eBay.

I got a copy yesterday and I'm playing it now. My copy is on black vinyl, doesn't have an insert, and is likely pressed at RTI (though I haven't checked to make sure yet). There is visible warping, likely due to the issue patient_ot wrote about on Discogs, but it doesn't affect playback at all. Thankfully. There is a slight bit of surface noise on the first track, but by and large, it plays through properly.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1812735 ... a-Promises

If I end up picking up the CD, I'll report on that, too, but either way, I think I lucked out. I initially misread the comments. It's actually the recent batch that has had most of these problems, but whatever.

And same here re: listening to it on repeat all day.

[patient_ot]

I got a copy yesterday and I'm playing it now. My copy is on black vinyl, doesn't have an insert, and is likely pressed at RTI (though I haven't checked to make sure yet). There is visible warping, likely due to the issue patient_ot wrote about on Discogs, but it doesn't affect playback at all. Thankfully. There is a slight bit of surface noise on the first track, but by and large, it plays through properly.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1812735 ... a-Promises

If I end up picking up the CD, I'll report on that, too, but either way, I think I lucked out. I initially misread the comments. It's actually the recent batch that has had most of these problems, but whatever.

And same here re: listening to it on repeat all day.

The RTI pressings come with the record in a clear plastic sleeve. The Pallas pressings come in a white, polylined sleeve with no label window. The label used a third plant but I'm not sure who that is or what those pressings look like.

I decided to try another copy of the record. The one I received is a Pallas pressing. I'll put it on shortly and see if it's better than the badly warped RTI copy I have. Generally after I try 3 copies of a title it's time to give up. So I would only try maybe one more after this if I need to.

[JGJR]

I got a copy yesterday and I'm playing it now. My copy is on black vinyl, doesn't have an insert, and is likely pressed at RTI (though I haven't checked to make sure yet). There is visible warping, likely due to the issue patient_ot wrote about on Discogs, but it doesn't affect playback at all. Thankfully. There is a slight bit of surface noise on the first track, but by and large, it plays through properly.

https://www.discogs.com/release/1812735 ... a-Promises

If I end up picking up the CD, I'll report on that, too, but either way, I think I lucked out. I initially misread the comments. It's actually the recent batch that has had most of these problems, but whatever.

And same here re: listening to it on repeat all day.

The RTI pressings come with the record in a clear plastic sleeve. The Pallas pressings come in a white, polylined sleeve with no label window. The label used a third plant but I'm not sure who that is or what those pressings look like.

I decided to try another copy of the record. The one I received is a Pallas pressing. I'll put it on shortly and see if it's better than the badly warped RTI copy I have. Generally after I try 3 copies of a title it's time to give up. So I would only try maybe one more after this if I need to.

Mine's definitely an RTI then because it's in a plastic sleeve. They likely used a third plant given the demand for this record. One of Luaka Bop's employees said that they've done 8 different pressings of it and have had to hold off pressing other LB records because of the backup, etc.

Anyway, good luck; hope the Pallas one works out! I think I got lucky with mine or am just less picky, honestly! The CD's only 10 bucks.

[version sound]

Maybe I’ll just stick with the CD. I have everything else by the Cocteau Twins up to HOLV on vinyl. After that, things get dicey. Originals are crazy expensive, and I’ve only heard bad things about the reissues. I’ve been crazy lucky so far; I bought all of them used, and they are all in shockingly good shape. Some of them look freaking new. #CTblessed

You got lucky there. I rarely see old copies of their records in the wild. When I do, they usually have issues and aren't worth the asking price. One of my favorite bands ever but it's hard to beat the sound on non-remastered CDs.

My issue with the vinyl reissues is that many of them were cheaply done, and some of them were reportedly sourced from the bad digital remasters that Guthrie did (which I dislike). So you basically get a bad remaster cheaply thrown to wax. Common these days actually.

Yeah, I’ve been crazy lucky to even find them in the wild - I have all the 12” vinyl up to Bluebell Knoll and I think I only bought 3 or 4 online - on top of that, I didn’t pay that much for any of them. The most I paid was $30 for a crazy nice UK OG Garlands. I have the 4AD/Relativity CD of TM&TM, and I have zero complaints about how it sounds. I’d really just be getting the vinyl to match the others.

As for the reissues, I’ve heard that HOLV is actually decently mastered, but (IIRC) one of the channels is out or extremely muffled for part of the record. That’s definitely a deal breaker. EDIT: On further investigation, that was a different one (Garlands maybe?). The problem with HOLV is that “Ice Blink Luck” supposedly sounds awful both on the vinyl and the hi-rez version, so it seems to be a tape problem.

[patient_ot]

Update: my second copy of the Promises LP is much better. This is a Pallas pressing and there is a hand-etched roman numeral "III" in addition to the runout info on Discogs. Still the same Bellman cut. Not badly warped like the first copy. It also has the picture insert which my first copy lacked.

Bottom line this is still a dicey album to buy on vinyl, so you better be prepared to go through multiple copies to get a good one. That or just stick with the CD or digital version. I may get the CD anyway for times I feel like listening to it but don't want to interrupt the flow of the album.

[patient_ot]

EDIT: On further investigation, that was a different one (Garlands maybe?). The problem with HOLV is that “Ice Blink Luck” supposedly sounds awful both on the vinyl and the hi-rez version, so it seems to be a tape problem.

That would be a no-go for me. Also when I checked the last reissue it looks like some copies were made with a different engineer cutting each side, e.g. mixed mother plates. That's also a no-go for me. Fortunately the original HOLV CD sounds excellent and is difficult to improve on.

[xxxMidgexxx]

I'm listening to the re-issue/remaster.

I discovered everything.