Sonic Youth "Experimental Jet Set, Trash & No Star"

[gregpolard]

Midge, why do you hate this one?

[JGJR]

Been a million years since I've heard it, but have always enjoyed it and I don't get why some regard it so negatively.

[scannest]

Been a million years since I've heard it, but have always enjoyed it and I don't get why some regard it so negatively.

Cuz you guys were in short pants at the time. As the follow up to DIRTY it just sounded exhausted and directionless. When you think about the explosion of 'punk rock' into the mainstream that was (still) going on in 1994, it was not the record people wanted or expected at the time. I don't like it much more 25 years on, but with hindsight it sorta capped a certain section of their career. They became a different band with "Washing Machine" - a kind of jammy, more focused experimental-ness that they carried through to their end. Consistently good, but the peaks and valleys kinda flattened out. EJST&NS was the last valley, I guess.

[gregpolard]

Been a million years since I've heard it, but have always enjoyed it and I don't get why some regard it so negatively.

Cuz you guys were in short pants at the time. As the follow up to DIRTY it just sounded exhausted and directionless. When you think about the explosion of 'punk rock' into the mainstream that was (still) going on in 1994, it was not the record people wanted or expected at the time. I don't like it much more 25 years on, but with hindsight it sorta capped a certain section of their career. They became a different band with "Washing Machine" - a kind of jammy, more focused experimental-ness that they carried through to their end. Consistently good, but the peaks and valleys kinda flattened out. EJST&NS was the last valley, I guess.

Yeah, I see this. Honestly it was the second one I got in "real time" (Dirty was my intro) and I remember being underwhelmed (I know that's not a word, I looked it up ) at the time, because as a follow up to that album it isn't what I was expecting.

Having said that, listening to it on its own, it's cool.

[scannest]

...listening to it on its own, it's cool.

You're just saying that to justify that 'Bull in the Heather' t-shirt you think you need.

[gregpolard]

...listening to it on its own, it's cool.

You're just saying that to justify that 'Bull in the Heather' t-shirt you think you need.

LOL

There's some great deep cuts on it. Lately my "hot track" has been "Sweet Shine"

[JGJR]

Been a million years since I've heard it, but have always enjoyed it and I don't get why some regard it so negatively.

Cuz you guys were in short pants at the time. As the follow up to DIRTY it just sounded exhausted and directionless. When you think about the explosion of 'punk rock' into the mainstream that was (still) going on in 1994, it was not the record people wanted or expected at the time. I don't like it much more 25 years on, but with hindsight it sorta capped a certain section of their career. They became a different band with "Washing Machine" - a kind of jammy, more focused experimental-ness that they carried through to their end. Consistently good, but the peaks and valleys kinda flattened out. EJST&NS was the last valley, I guess.

Short pants? How old do you think I am?

I was in college and way too absorbed in the hardcore scene at the time to pay *too* much attention to SY, truthfully. I don't think i heard it in full until the 2000s, honestly. In retrospect/hindsight, I think SY deliberately made a record like this to get away from exactly the kind of expectations you mentioned (and they've said so themselves). I think they wanted to make something more similar to what was on Matador, Merge, KRS, K, et al. during that time.

I do agree with your Washing Machine comment, though, but I'd argue that phase was firmly in place up to and including Murray Street (my favorite of those albums). From Sonic Nurse on and especially on their last 2 albums, I've always thought that they really got away from that jammy element (though it was still kinda there occasionally) and came the closest to sounding like their late '80s/early '90s peak.

[patient_ot]

I thought the album sucked when I heard it for the first time back in the 90s. It turned me off Sonic Youth for a good while.

Since then I have heard it periodically at friend's places or in record shops and so on. I still don't like it. It's just a lame album for them. IMHO.

[xxxMidgexxx]

It's a shit album. I thought it was their end for sure. And to top it off 'Bull in the Heather' is a mediocre single at best.

[drew]

It's SY's worst album. One of their three bad ones. EJST&NS- NYC ghosts & flowers- Murray street.

Even most of the SYR releases are better.

[gregpolard]

It's a shit album. I thought it was their end for sure. And to top it off 'Bull in the Heather' is a mediocre single at best.

I'm curious what VS thinks.

Try listening to it on its own without thinking it's a follow up to Dirty. Or don't. I don't care.

[gregpolard]

It's SY's worst album. One of their three bad ones. EJST&NS- NYC ghosts & flowers- Murray street.

Even most of the SYR releases are better.

NYC Ghosts & Flowers came out when I was a freshman at college. I remember being excited because I saw the running time was short and there weren't many songs...coming after "A Thousand Leaves" (which I dig) I was thinking maybe it would be some kind of "return to form". It wasn't. I remember the original Pitchfork review was a 0.0. LOL

That said, I revisited it a couple months ago and it's better that I thought, for what it is. Would I put it on in place of almost any of their other releases? No. But still.

I'm surprised you don't like "Murray Street" at least. That's considered by many to be the beginning of their final run of good to great records.

[xxxHunterxxx]

I just listened to the first 2.5 songs. I find it no more or less annoying than any other Sonic Youth record.

[JGJR]

It's SY's worst album. One of their three bad ones. EJST&NS- NYC ghosts & flowers- Murray street.

Even most of the SYR releases are better.

I really like many of the SYR releases; the wilder, the better, so perhaps take this with a grain of salt, but Murray Street is a top 5 SY album for me for "Rain on Tin" just by itself.

[xxxMidgexxx]

I just listened to the first 2.5 songs. I find it no more or less annoying than any other Sonic Youth record.

Their music is waaay too inventive and scientific for your palate.

[version sound]

It's a shit album. I thought it was their end for sure. And to top it off 'Bull in the Heather' is a mediocre single at best.

I'm curious what VS thinks.

Try listening to it on its own without thinking it's a follow up to Dirty. Or don't. I don't care.

I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as bad Sonic Youth. I’m a lot more invested in their records up to Dirty because I’ve spent the most time with those. Every now and then, I like to stretch out beyond those, though, and Experimental Jet Set is as good as most of their post-Dirty records. For some reason, I have a soft spot for NYC Ghosts, which is my definite favorite of the later records. Probably because it reminds me of Sister (my fave SY LP) for some weird reason that I can’t really explain, but Jet Set is pretty close to the top other than that one.

[drew]

It's SY's worst album. One of their three bad ones. EJST&NS- NYC ghosts & flowers- Murray street.

Even most of the SYR releases are better.

I really like many of the SYR releases; the wilder, the better, so perhaps take this with a grain of salt, but Murray Street is a top 5 SY album for me for "Rain on Tin" just by itself.

Rain On Tin is a great song Just don’t dig that record. I think with Sonic Nurse they “came back” And the shows from then on were always great.

[lewdd]

Just listened to "Bull in the Heather" for first time since when it probably came out and was on 120 minutes frequently.

Starts off as CCR, then jumps to PJ Harvey fronting Fugazi.

[gregpolard]

Just listened to "Bull in the Heather" for first time since when it probably came out and was on 120 minutes frequently.

Starts off as CCR, then jumps to PJ Harvey fronting Fugazi.

This is...something

[JGJR]

It's SY's worst album. One of their three bad ones. EJST&NS- NYC ghosts & flowers- Murray street.

Even most of the SYR releases are better.

I really like many of the SYR releases; the wilder, the better, so perhaps take this with a grain of salt, but Murray Street is a top 5 SY album for me for "Rain on Tin" just by itself.

Rain On Tin is a great song Just don’t dig that record. I think with Sonic Nurse they “came back” And the shows from then on were always great.

Fair; RoT is its best moment. Where we also agree is on that last sentence. I've been a fan since 1990, but never saw them until they opened for Wilco at Summerstage in 2003. I thought they were really boring that night (Wilco was great, though), frankly. Every other time I saw them after that, though, they were fantastic. The worst of those was probably Daydream Nation in full at Pitchfork, but it was by no means bad (it was good, just not great IMO). When they came back out for the encore with Mark Ibold on bass, they were phenomenal. Every time I saw them afterwards, Ibold was on bass and with him in tow, they became an incredible live band. It freed up Kim to sang and occasionally do her weird little dances and the shows became more fun, too.

[JGJR]

I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as bad Sonic Youth.

This.

[JGJR]

Just listened to "Bull in the Heather" for first time since when it probably came out and was on 120 minutes frequently.

Starts off as CCR, then jumps to PJ Harvey fronting Fugazi.

This is...something

I'd be a fan of something with tha description; just sayin'.

[lewdd]

I think that "Down by the Water" by PJ Harvey sounds very similar to "Bull in the Heather", and there is a guitar part about 20 seconds into the song that sounds like CCR to me.

[scannest]

I think that "Down by the Water" by PJ Harvey sounds very similar to "Bull in the Heather", and there is a guitar part about 20 seconds into the song that sounds like CCR to me.

It's certainly swampy, which always brings CCR to mind.