So, Ken Stringfellow is a fucking creep

[version sound]

And The Posies are breaking up because the rest of the group agrees:

https://kuow.org/stories/as-sexual-misconduct-allegations-dog-ken-stringfellow-of-the-posies-the-band-breaks-up?fbclid=IwAR06MYMy2ZY6OF8r5LNg0av_sETMPSLU03z-pXiKtq2P9pdQFbn14-jFCx4

[gregpolard]

Such a bummer. The stories from the women are absolutely terrible. Not even really sure what else to say.

[version sound]

I was never really a fan of the music, but they seemed like good guys (John still is, AFAIK). Just a bummer all around.

[scannest]

Yes, super shitty behavior. Terrible.
Talked about this a lot yesterday with friends. There's something about these guys who were so close to something like commercial success at one point, who are now forced to grind out a living like the rest of us. It's like the only thing they have left from their old lives is the chance to sleep with women who are enamored with who they are/were. I mean, the money isn't there and the fame isn't there. So you abuse the one outlet that might still be afforded to make you feel like something special. And alcohol and drugs only make things worse. It is as pathetic and sad as it gets. And it seems he and his wife had an understanding, so all he had to do was not be a completely awful asshole and he could have 'had his cake...', so to speak. And again, being drunk only brings this type of behavior front and center.
So, yeah. Terrible.

[gregpolard]

Yes, super shitty behavior. Terrible.
Talked about this a lot yesterday with friends. There's something about these guys who were so close to something like commercial success at one point, who are now forced to grind out a living like the rest of us. It's like the only thing they have left from their old lives is the chance to sleep with women who are enamored with who they are/were. I mean, the money isn't there and the fame isn't there. So you abuse the one outlet that might still be afforded to make you feel like something special. And alcohol and drugs only make things worse. It is as pathetic and sad as it gets. And it seems he and his wife had an understanding, so all he had to do was not be a completely awful asshole and he could have 'had his cake...', so to speak. And again, being drunk only brings this type of behavior front and center.
So, yeah. Terrible.

Well said. You put into words what I was trying to say. Just super terrible.

[JGJR]

I was never really a fan of the music, but they seemed like good guys (John still is, AFAIK). Just a bummer all around.

Jon is (to the best of my knowledge having only met him once) a sweetie. As for Ken, well I'm disappointed, of course, but honestly not surprised at all. Why? I had heard an account of a 2000s era Posies show at the Khyber when Ken was drunkenly hitting on every female in there. I thought he'd gotten married, settled down, etc. and that it was in the past, but apparently not. And I also didn't realize it escalated to that kind of behavior. I can comment more on this via DM, but that's as much as I'm willing to say here.

I do agree that the reasoning scannest puts forth definitely may have something to do with these types of situations, but can't really comment further on that.

[Dinko]

I saw the Posies thrice. Always in small venues. I talked and I watched after the gigs. I've been discussing KS and JA for years with a friend of mine , as we took sides like music nerds do. I think KS is a narcissist. The article quoting the line from "Everybody is a Fucking Liar", that I sang along countless times, really hurt. The fact that the band broke up in August (Jon quitting August 4, Frankie leaving August 9, with gigs booked) and no one knew until now is somewhat telling, if you ask me. The shittiest way this band could have ended after 35 years, imo. I really feel sorry for Jon, and I respect him even more for this decision. Just imagine what these 2,5 months (of medial silence) must have felt for him. Yeah, terrible.

[gregpolard]

The timing is nuts because they did the weekend of shows in Seattle back in mid July, then the live stream show at the end of July.

We interviewed Ken for Somethin To Du on 8/15....so at this point we're asking some Posies questions and the band was already done! Talked about the new record, next tour, etc.

Dinko, what article/line are you referring to?

[Dinko]

Dinko, what article/line are you referring to?

The KUOW-one from the original post. "In one song, he wrote, “You who reject masculinity; baby, I’m with you as soon as you forsake virility and aggression too”".

[xxxHunterxxx]

Yes, super shitty behavior. Terrible.
Talked about this a lot yesterday with friends. There's something about these guys who were so close to something like commercial success at one point, who are now forced to grind out a living like the rest of us. It's like the only thing they have left from their old lives is the chance to sleep with women who are enamored with who they are/were. I mean, the money isn't there and the fame isn't there. So you abuse the one outlet that might still be afforded to make you feel like something special. And alcohol and drugs only make things worse. It is as pathetic and sad as it gets. And it seems he and his wife had an understanding, so all he had to do was not be a completely awful asshole and he could have 'had his cake...', so to speak. And again, being drunk only brings this type of behavior front and center.
So, yeah. Terrible.

There’s a great line in Dean Wareham’s book about playing to hundreds of people who think you’re a genius and then going home to someone who thinks you’re a bum who needs to get a real job.

[scannest]

Regarding the timing...Jon and Ken are both still listed as part of the "Acoustic Big Star" tour that's coming to Brooklyn in a couple weeks. Heck, on 10/7 I got an e-mail from Ken (not a personal one, just a mailing list thing) asking if someone in the NYC could put up a couple touring musicians in return for free tickets. So, he was working as tour manager and playing these shows as of 2 weeks ago. Strange...

[patient_ot]

I'll just say what I said elsewhere.

I was a fan of the band's first 2 albums but knew very little about them. Never saw them live or interacted with any of the members. This is a shitty situation all around.

[gregpolard]

After all this, I wasn't going to go to the solo show i had tickets for anyway, but he's officially off the lineup.

NOw i'm trying to get a refund

[FlexMyHead]

You never hear about oi and street punk bands treating the birds badly. Maybe you guys should listen to more oi?

[xxxHunterxxx]

Apparently, he didn’t save enough of that REM money to hire a decent crisis consultant/PR person: https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/ken-stringfellow/ken-stringfellow-new-statement-sexual-misconduct/

[scannest]

Yup, that it is a very generic non-apology apology right there.

[JGJR]

The shittiest way this band could have ended after 35 years, imo. I really feel sorry for Jon, and I respect him even more for this decision. Just imagine what these 2,5 months (of medial silence) must have felt for him. Yeah, terrible.

All of this.

[SamDBL]

Yup, that it is a very generic non-apology apology right there.

I don't know anything about this guy, his character, or that of his accusers or the specifics of the allegations. Probably about as much as the rest of everyone casually keeping up with this. I guess the only thing I'm seeing is that the accusations of him being a promiscuous womanizer and of being an actual rapist are being kind of muddled, here. When they are very different things. Morally and especially legally. I'm kind of curious if everyone is making the distinction. He obviously is with his statement.

[jaybird]

Do tik-tok/soundcloud rappers have these sorts of #MeToo issues with all the groupies they fuck? Why is it always these sorts of holier-than-thou lefty emo/indie dorks that turn out to be the rapey pieces of shit? the Beach Slang Guy, Mark Kozelek, Ian Svenonius, now this douche.

"Live by the sensitive nü-male-feminist credo, die by the same".

[scannest]

Do tik-tok/soundcloud rappers have these sorts of #MeToo issues with all the groupies they fuck? Why is it always these sorts of holier-than-thou lefty emo/indie dorks that turn out to be the rapey pieces of shit? the Beach Slang Guy, Mark Kozelek, Ian Svenonius, now this douche.

"Live by the sensitive nü-male-feminist credo, die by the same".

I was discussing Diamond Dave yesterday with a friend, the thought being "Why aren't there women crawling out of the woodwork accusing DLR of all sorts of offensive, borderline criminal behavior?" And the conclusion we came to is that Dave was probably 100% upfront and honest about what he was looking for and what these women could expect. None of this "I thought we bonded in a profound, spiritual way but in fact he just wanted to fuck me" stuff that happens with these sensitive nü-male-feminist types.
As far as Ken goes, most of the behavior just seems to be shitty, but if the "bathroom" incident is to be believed...well, that sounds like rape. And I'm inclined to believe it. Drugs and alcohol do not help. I can easily see someone who "would never do such a thing" do exactly that thing when blitzed outta their skull.

[SamDBL]

Do tik-tok/soundcloud rappers have these sorts of #MeToo issues with all the groupies they fuck? Why is it always these sorts of holier-than-thou lefty emo/indie dorks that turn out to be the rapey pieces of shit? the Beach Slang Guy, Mark Kozelek, Ian Svenonius, now this douche.

"Live by the sensitive nü-male-feminist credo, die by the same".

I think that's a perfect point. It's a combination of the image they present, as well as the crowd they play to. Rappers don't pretend to care about the females in their audience, thereby avoiding any sort of 'betrayal', I guess. And their audiences brand of feminism seems to revolve more around the 'it's cool to be a prostitute and drug men and steal their wallets' kind of ideal than 'sex without a phone call the next day is pretty much like rape' that the upper crust whities peddle. Google the assault allegations against Dr. Dre. And keep in mind the dude has suffered zero consequences from his audience or his employers (one being Apple). And is, in fact, currently the CEO of a few different multi-million dollar companies. His tepid 'sorry I kicked you women in the teeth those times' apology seemed to suffice just fine.

[jaybird]

Do tik-tok/soundcloud rappers have these sorts of #MeToo issues with all the groupies they fuck? Why is it always these sorts of holier-than-thou lefty emo/indie dorks that turn out to be the rapey pieces of shit? the Beach Slang Guy, Mark Kozelek, Ian Svenonius, now this douche.

"Live by the sensitive nü-male-feminist credo, die by the same".

I think that's a perfect point. It's a combination of the image they present, as well as the crowd they play to. Rappers don't pretend to care about the females in their audience, thereby avoiding any sort of 'betrayal', I guess. And their audiences brand of feminism seems to revolve more around the 'it's cool to be a prostitute and drug men and steal their wallets' kind of ideal than 'sex without a phone call the next day is pretty much like rape' that the upper crust whities peddle. Google the assault allegations against Dr. Dre. And keep in mind the dude has suffered zero consequences from his audience or his employers (one being Apple). And is, in fact, currently the CEO of a few different multi-million dollar companies. His tepid 'sorry I kicked you women in the teeth those times' apology seemed to suffice just fine.

[Dinko]

I'm kind of curious if everyone is making the distinction.

Well, No means No, even in a bathroom.

[SamDBL]

Do tik-tok/soundcloud rappers have these sorts of #MeToo issues with all the groupies they fuck? Why is it always these sorts of holier-than-thou lefty emo/indie dorks that turn out to be the rapey pieces of shit? the Beach Slang Guy, Mark Kozelek, Ian Svenonius, now this douche.

"Live by the sensitive nü-male-feminist credo, die by the same".

I think that's a perfect point. It's a combination of the image they present, as well as the crowd they play to. Rappers don't pretend to care about the females in their audience, thereby avoiding any sort of 'betrayal', I guess. And their audiences brand of feminism seems to revolve more around the 'it's cool to be a prostitute and drug men and steal their wallets' kind of ideal than 'sex without a phone call the next day is pretty much like rape' that the upper crust whities peddle. Google the assault allegations against Dr. Dre. And keep in mind the dude has suffered zero consequences from his audience or his employers (one being Apple). And is, in fact, currently the CEO of a few different multi-million dollar companies. His tepid 'sorry I kicked you women in the teeth those times' apology seemed to suffice just fine.

[SamDBL]

I'm kind of curious if everyone is making the distinction.

Well, No means No, even in a bathroom.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. I had no idea.

[Dinko]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. I had no idea.

Oh, de rien. Also, if there's a mutual agreement that No actually does NOT mean No, there will be another word that DOES mean No. And they will remember. Just kind of curious if everybody is aware. It's a wonderfully complex world; you have no idea.

[SamDBL]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. I had no idea.

Oh, de rien. Also, if there's a mutual agreement that No actually does NOT mean No, there will be another word that DOES mean No. And they will remember. Just kind of curious if everybody is aware. It's a wonderfully complex world; you have no idea.

God damn. What else, zen master dipshit?

[FormerLurker]

[xxxHunterxxx]

Yup, that it is a very generic non-apology apology right there.

I don't know anything about this guy, his character, or that of his accusers or the specifics of the allegations. Probably about as much as the rest of everyone casually keeping up with this. I guess the only thing I'm seeing is that the accusations of him being a promiscuous womanizer and of being an actual rapist are being kind of muddled, here. When they are very different things. Morally and especially legally. I'm kind of curious if everyone is making the distinction. He obviously is with his statement.

His contradictory, incoherent statement is doing much of the muddling:

“Having consensual sexual relationships with multiple people is both messy and complicated. While I deny these specific allegations, it’s clear I am responsible for creating conditions that could lead people to be upset with me and indeed emotionally hurt by me.

First and foremost, I am a nonviolent person, and I would never intentionally harm someone. Still, I am taking personal responsibility for the harm my behavior caused these women. It was never my intention, nor was I aware of it at the time. I sincerely apologize for the impact I have had, and I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused these and other women as well as my family, friends, bandmates, fans and community.”

Let’s dissect this a bit:

“I deny these specific allegations”. Which ones? As phrased, he’s denying all of the allegations in the article.

“It’s clear I am responsible for creating conditions that could lead people to be upset with me and indeed emotionally hurt by me.” Which people? The people whose specific allegations you are denying? And what are the conditions you created? “Ethically non-monogamous” relationships [see first Stringfellow statement “categorically deny[ing]” all allegations] or dragging women into bathroom stalls for forced sex?

“I am taking personal responsibility for the harm my behavior caused these women.” How? By denying their allegations? And why would you take responsibility for things that didn’t happen?

“I sincerely apologize for the impact I have had, and I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused these and other women as well as my family, friends, bandmates, fans and community.” What behavior are you apologizing for? You just denied the allegations.

The statement is a fucking disaster.

[scannest]

The statement is a fucking disaster.

It's a more long-winded version of the classic "I'm sorry if my behavior offended anyone" apology (which actually translates to "I didn't do anything offensive, but I guess I can't control if some super-touchy types were offended.")

[jaybird]

The statement is a fucking disaster.

It's a more long-winded version of the classic "I'm sorry if my behavior offended anyone" apology (which actually translates to "I didn't do anything offensive, but I guess I can't control if some super-touchy types were offended.")

I think he's still trying to play the same sneaky male-feminist angle: "I specifically deny being a true rapey-rapist, but I would like to once again acknowledge my inherent problematic, sexist and entitled patriarchal behavior due to being a white male. I promise to be a better ally, because that's the only way I know how to get women to sleep with me".

[SamDBL]

The statement is a fucking disaster.

It's a more long-winded version of the classic "I'm sorry if my behavior offended anyone" apology (which actually translates to "I didn't do anything offensive, but I guess I can't control if some super-touchy types were offended.")

I think he's still trying to play the same sneaky male-feminist angle: "I specifically deny being a true rapey-rapist, but I would like to once again acknowledge my inherent problematic, sexist and entitled patriarchal behavior due to being a white male. I promise to be a better ally, because that's the only way I know how to get women to sleep with me".

That's exactly right. It's intentionally vague, as these stupid public apologies always are. It would definitely be helpful to know exactly which accusations he's responding to. 'Im sorry we misunderstood each other' is at least a logical response to the accusation of 'this guy talked me into sex that I later regretted'. But it's not a reasonable response to 'this guy raped me'. Which, again, is a much more serious matter in every regard. And really, it's the *only* accusation he should be worried about addressing, imo.

[JGJR]

Yup, that it is a very generic non-apology apology right there.

I don't know anything about this guy, his character, or that of his accusers or the specifics of the allegations. Probably about as much as the rest of everyone casually keeping up with this. I guess the only thing I'm seeing is that the accusations of him being a promiscuous womanizer and of being an actual rapist are being kind of muddled, here. When they are very different things. Morally and especially legally. I'm kind of curious if everyone is making the distinction. He obviously is with his statement.

His contradictory, incoherent statement is doing much of the muddling:

“Having consensual sexual relationships with multiple people is both messy and complicated. While I deny these specific allegations, it’s clear I am responsible for creating conditions that could lead people to be upset with me and indeed emotionally hurt by me.

First and foremost, I am a nonviolent person, and I would never intentionally harm someone. Still, I am taking personal responsibility for the harm my behavior caused these women. It was never my intention, nor was I aware of it at the time. I sincerely apologize for the impact I have had, and I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused these and other women as well as my family, friends, bandmates, fans and community.”

Let’s dissect this a bit:

“I deny these specific allegations”. Which ones? As phrased, he’s denying all of the allegations in the article.

“It’s clear I am responsible for creating conditions that could lead people to be upset with me and indeed emotionally hurt by me.” Which people? The people whose specific allegations you are denying? And what are the conditions you created? “Ethically non-monogamous” relationships [see first Stringfellow statement “categorically deny[ing]” all allegations] or dragging women into bathroom stalls for forced sex?

“I am taking personal responsibility for the harm my behavior caused these women.” How? By denying their allegations? And why would you take responsibility for things that didn’t happen?

“I sincerely apologize for the impact I have had, and I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused these and other women as well as my family, friends, bandmates, fans and community.” What behavior are you apologizing for? You just denied the allegations.

The statement is a fucking disaster.

For real. It reminds me of Reagan's denial of and confession (at the same time) to the Iran-Contra crimes back in 1987. Let me see if I can find it. Killer Mike sampled it in "Reagan."

[scannest]

They updated the listing for the 'Songs of Big Star' show and neither Jon nor Ken are listed anymore.

A one-of-a-kind acoustic, orchestrated performance featuring Jody Stephens (Big Star), Mike Mills (R.E.M.), Ira Kaplan (Yo La Tengo), Chris Stamey (dB's), Brett Harris and Charles Cleaver (Big Star's Third), Crispin Cioe (Uptown Horns), Skylar Gudasz & the Occasional String Quartet

[gregpolard]

They updated the listing for the 'Songs of Big Star' show and neither Jon nor Ken are listed anymore.

A one-of-a-kind acoustic, orchestrated performance featuring Jody Stephens (Big Star), Mike Mills (R.E.M.), Ira Kaplan (Yo La Tengo), Chris Stamey (dB's), Brett Harris and Charles Cleaver (Big Star's Third), Crispin Cioe (Uptown Horns), Skylar Gudasz & the Occasional String Quartet

I feel bad for Jon, honestly.

[scannest]

I feel bad for Jon, honestly.

Jody Stephens explained Jon's absence last night - said that he lives in Canada now and had concerns about getting back and forth across the border. They even did this Jon co-write, at Chris Stamey's request. It sounded pretty great.

[gregpolard]

I feel bad for Jon, honestly.

Jody Stephens explained Jon's absence last night - said that he lives in Canada now and had concerns about getting back and forth across the border. They even did this Jon co-write, at Chris Stamey's request. It sounded pretty great.

That's rad! I feel less bad now. HAH

Ironically, I Was just about to ask you on the side how the show was but I'll ask here instead - how was it?

[scannest]

Ironically, I Was just about to ask you on the side how the show was but I'll ask here instead - how was it?

The setting (a church) and the mostly acoustic instrumentation meant it was a little too staid for me. As pretty (and occassionally intricate) as some of the songs are, this isn't 'classical' music and much of the show had that sorta vibe. Eventually things loosened up a bit and got to be more fun. And they ended on a ridiculous group singalong of "Don't Go Back to Rockville" which was just silly enough to work, like "what the hell, we're outta songs and people will get a kick out of this." And we did.

[JGJR]

Ironically, I Was just about to ask you on the side how the show was but I'll ask here instead - how was it?

The setting (a church) and the mostly acoustic instrumentation meant it was a little too staid for me. As pretty (and occassionally intricate) as some of the songs are, this isn't 'classical' music and much of the show had that sorta vibe. Eventually things loosened up a bit and got to be more fun. And they ended on a ridiculous group singalong of "Don't Go Back to Rockville" which was just silly enough to work, like "what the hell, we're outta songs and people will get a kick out of this." And we did.

I love how that song has become a standard closer/encore for any band Mike Mills is involved in. I've seen The Baseball Project do it many years ago. I still kinda regret not chatting him up at his table before the show when he was (funny enough) watching a Yankees game iirc.

Also, I never knew or had forgotten that Jon co-wrote "February's Quiet." I always associate it with Jody since he sings it (same idea with Jon and "Lady Sweet"). In Space is underrated and I love that the included songs from it in the show.

[scannest]

I still kinda regret not chatting him up at his table before the show when he was (funny enough) watching a Yankees game iirc.

At SXSW, I sat next to Mr. Mills on a bench at this backyard bar while The Split Squad played. All I could think to do was comment on how great the band was. He agreed.