American Rust

[jaybird]

Anyone watching this? Kinda slow going at first, but as another entry in the cable-network-gritty-noir-cop-drama-serial sweepstakes it's pretty decent... it covers all the angles that we've come to expect from this genre - the 40-year decline of middle & working class America, the plague of opiates, class conflict, transgressive sexual/racial politics, etc... it definitely went into some seriously bizarro-hilarious sex/fetish territory last week - I guess all these shows have to keep upping the ante to keep people talking about them.

B+

[SamDBL]

I am watching it. About 1/3 through the newest episode. Wondering where it’s headed. Unlike a lot of these shows, it did not wait until, the end to reveal whodunnit. So I’m curious how it ends. Would be cool if everyone either ended up with a ruined life. Or just lived out the rest of their days struggling in the near-apocalyptic remnants of a shit hole town. Credits roll

[jaybird]

I did think the truck-stop-color-coded-bandana-gay-sex digression was interesting... I have been seeing burly-looking biker/greaser/hot-rodder types at punk shows for years with a neatly folded bandana hanging out of the back pocket of their jeans... never had any idea it was evidently a down-low gay thing, I always just thought it was part of the the whole 50's "look".... not sure what's funnier: that all of these retro Social D./Mike Ness-wannabe greaser boys are actually cruising each other for furtive handjobs and beejers in the john, or if they're all just walking around completely oblivious and ignorant of what having a bandana hanging out of your hip pocket means.

[JGJR]

We've been really enjoying it, but I think Jeff Daniels is head and shoulders the best actor in the whole cast. He's incredible (and often quite funny in a quite serious/dramatic role while retaining the drama aspect.

[jaybird]

We've been really enjoying it, but I think Jeff Daniels is head and shoulders the best actor in the whole cast. He's incredible (and often quite funny in a quite serious/dramatic role while retaining the drama aspect.

I think Maura Tierney is really good too, but yeah, Jeff Daniels is always pretty great in anything he does. He's a bit of a Michigan hero... he started a local theater in a small town just outside of Ann Arbor about 30 years ago that is now a local institution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purple_Rose_of_Cairo

[FormerLurker]

Jeff Daniels was amazing in "Godless."

[SamDBL]

Really good. I like this new sub genre of post apocalyptic boarded up factory shit hole town mystery dramas.

[SamDBL]

Dick move by the mom (in car with the married couple) tho. I kinda hope she gets killed, now.

[jaybird]

Dick move by the mom (in car with the married couple) tho. I kinda hope she gets killed, now.

I kinda liked that she straight up roasted that cheating whore in front of her husband. Dude deserves way better.

[SamDBL]

.

[SamDBL]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

[jaybird]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

Basically everyone in this show is severely morally compromised... except maybe the cuck Spaniard husband I guess. Like you mentioned earlier, the plot isn't even about "whodunnit" it's more like "how can this ensemble of craven, desperate, shitty people make the situations they are in even worse"?

[JGJR]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

WARNING: some spoilers ahead, so watch it first. I'm somewhere between where you are and where jaybird is on this topic, but I completely agree with the rest of what you wrote. I find Billy to be a more complicated sympathetic character than you do, but it's hard to argue that he's made some extremely poor choices that have also impacted others (most notably Isaac, obviously) who's yet to be mentioned here except in passing).

I also don't blame Lee for getting out, marrying young, etc. Obviously, she's also made mistakes, but watch the sexist tropes, jaybird. No one likes cheating, sure, but I don't think it's so black and white with her. She just shouldn't have come back and I think did it out of obligation and a major sense of guilt.

[JGJR]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

Basically everyone in this show is severely morally compromised... except maybe the cuck Spaniard husband I guess. Like you mentioned earlier, the plot isn't even about "whodunnit" it's more like "how can this ensemble of craven, desperate, shitty people make the situations they are in even worse"?

Is the Dag board or 4-chan or 8-chan or something? Sheesh.

[jaybird]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

Basically everyone in this show is severely morally compromised... except maybe the cuck Spaniard husband I guess. Like you mentioned earlier, the plot isn't even about "whodunnit" it's more like "how can this ensemble of craven, desperate, shitty people make the situations they are in even worse"?

Is the Dag board or 4-chan or 8-chan or something? Sheesh.

It's a joke, relax, jfc.

[jaybird]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

WARNING: some spoilers ahead, so watch it first. I'm somewhere between where you are and where jaybird is on this topic, but I completely agree with the rest of what you wrote. I find Billy to be a more complicated sympathetic character than you do, but it's hard to argue that he's made some extremely poor choices that have also impacted others (most notably Isaac, obviously) who's yet to be mentioned here except in passing).

I also don't blame Lee for getting out, marrying young, etc. Obviously, she's also made mistakes, but watch the sexist tropes, jaybird. No one likes cheating, sure, but I don't think it's so black and white with her. She just shouldn't have come back and I think did it out of obligation and a major sense of guilt.

[SamDBL]

How is ‘cuck Spaniard husband’ against the ‘rules’? Is calling people from Spain Spaniards now some kind of faux pa?
As far as letting the cheater chick off the hook, I would not go that far at all. It’s just always been part of my fucked up moral code that I hate seeing people needlessly getting their lives blown up by busy bodies with no stake in the game other than vengeance or shcadenfreude.

[jaybird]

How is ‘cuck Spaniard husband’ against the ‘rules’? Is calling people from Spain Spaniards now some kind of faux pa?
As far as letting the cheater chick off the hook, I would not go that far at all. It’s just always been part of my fucked up moral code that I hate seeing people needlessly getting their lives blown up by busy bodies with no stake in the game other than vengeance or shcadenfreude.

I'm guessing "cuck" was the trigger word there, not "spaniard".


But yeah, other people cheating on each other is nothing I would ever bother to get personally involved with one way or the other, but I have no problem seeing it all blow up in their face when people finally get called on their shitty behavior when it does happen though... so in this fictional instance, it's rather gratifying to see someone have to actually deal with the consequences of their lying, deceptive and selfish behavior, even if the person bringing it to light has arguably shitty motives themselves.

[SamDBL]

The dirty cop story line was pretty nuts.

[jaybird]

The dirty cop story line was pretty nuts.

Jeff Daniels' character might be the most pathetic in the whole series... drug-addled cop who keeps using the authority and power of his position to avoid taking responsibility for his actions, and is also too much of a coward to face the inevitable consequences and implications of his actions. You can't help feeling sympathetic toward him because of his whole 'aw-shucks' ordinary Joe demeanor, but if you just look at his actions, he continually chooses to do the most self-serving route.

[SamDBL]

The dirty cop story line was pretty nuts.

Jeff Daniels' character might be the most pathetic in the whole series... drug-addled cop who keeps using the authority and power of his position to avoid taking responsibility for his actions, and is also too much of a coward to face the inevitable consequences and implications of his actions. You can't help feeling sympathetic toward him because of his whole 'aw-shucks' ordinary Joe demeanor, but if you just look at his actions, he continually chooses to do the most self-serving route.

Very true. Early on, I thought he was just going to be a standard good guy cop that bent the rules here and there for the good of the poor town folk. But then he was hastily covering up assault and murder for what, a piece of tail? I mean, not that I wouldn’t do the same. And now this crazy serpico dirty cop brotherhood thing takes his horrible approach to a new level.
I found the Isaac character to be pretty much as repulsive and pathetic as all the rest. However, the sub plot with the girl talking to her phantom girlfriend and then bailing out of embarrassment was stellar.

[JGJR]

How is ‘cuck Spaniard husband’ against the ‘rules’? Is calling people from Spain Spaniards now some kind of faux pa?
As far as letting the cheater chick off the hook, I would not go that far at all. It’s just always been part of my fucked up moral code that I hate seeing people needlessly getting their lives blown up by busy bodies with no stake in the game other than vengeance or shcadenfreude.

That's the exact point I was making. That kind of behavior is always motivated by those two exact things and helps no one, even if on the surface it appears to be righteous. It's just never a good idea. So, in short, I don't think that it's fucked up at all. It's actually kind.

[JGJR]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

Basically everyone in this show is severely morally compromised... except maybe the cuck Spaniard husband I guess. Like you mentioned earlier, the plot isn't even about "whodunnit" it's more like "how can this ensemble of craven, desperate, shitty people make the situations they are in even worse"?

Is the Dag board or 4-chan or 8-chan or something? Sheesh.

It's a joke, relax, jfc.

Touche.

[JGJR]

I guess. I find her son/main character a completely unsympathetic dumbass sack of shit. And all of this, including his current station in life and this murder debacle, is his fault. And the mom, because she was in a shitty mood about her shitty son finally getting his just reward, figured 'im gonna ruin this bitch's life, too' on a whim just to make her as miserable and hopeless as everyone else in the town. Like, I don't think she did it out of respect for the Spaniard.
Also, I just think people should mind they own God damn business when it comes to adultery.

WARNING: some spoilers ahead, so watch it first. I'm somewhere between where you are and where jaybird is on this topic, but I completely agree with the rest of what you wrote. I find Billy to be a more complicated sympathetic character than you do, but it's hard to argue that he's made some extremely poor choices that have also impacted others (most notably Isaac, obviously) who's yet to be mentioned here except in passing).

I also don't blame Lee for getting out, marrying young, etc. Obviously, she's also made mistakes, but watch the sexist tropes, jaybird. No one likes cheating, sure, but I don't think it's so black and white with her. She just shouldn't have come back and I think did it out of obligation and a major sense of guilt.

OK perhaps I read something into that when you didn't mean it and so, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, but this is what I was referring to. You wrote:

I kinda liked that she straight up roasted that cheating whore in front of her husband.

MORE SPOILERS AHEAD: I would just say she made a really poor decision to start sleeping with her ex and that it's likely going to have major implications for her character, but she is young and should be allowed to fuck up, etc. Of course, I also feel bad for her very patient and seemingly loving husband, but that doesn't mean having to have hatred of his wife's character.

Oh and the cuck thing is just played out and used inaccurately and often used by really bad actors on the internet and I think you all know that. It wasn't triggering or anything, just kinda laughable (and also inaccurate; if he would've just been like fine when Maura Tierney spilled the beans, sure, but he's clearly pissed).

[SamDBL]

Hey, as long as you have the same charitable inclination towards men when they cheat, cool. As it stands in these dramas… at least in the last couple decades… the cheating man character is painted as a selfish, manipulative, sociopath. Whereas the cheating females in so many of these stories (including this one) are viewed as complicated, or somewhat sympathetic. A forbidden, yet romantic tryst motivated by abuse or neglect, or some such. First example I can think of off the top of my head is the Titanic. Anyway, I digress.

[JGJR]

Hey, as long as you have the same charitable inclination towards men when they cheat, cool. As it stands in these dramas… at least in the last couple decades… the cheating man character is painted as a selfish, manipulative, sociopath. Whereas the cheating females in so many of these stories (including this one) are viewed as complicated, or somewhat sympathetic. A forbidden, yet romantic tryst motivated by abuse or neglect, or some such. First example I can think of off the top of my head is the Titanic. Anyway, I digress.

I wouldn't characterize it so much as charitable or even sympathetic (I think it's icky) and I don't really make a distinction and wasn't thinking about the differences in how this type of behavior is treated in Hollywood movies and TV shows over the past few decades or whatever. I expressed the same non-judgmental type of attitude towards Lee's cheating, so I thought you meant it that way, too.

People cheat for all sorts of reasons far too long to go into here.

[jaybird]

Hey, as long as you have the same charitable inclination towards men when they cheat, cool. As it stands in these dramas… at least in the last couple decades… the cheating man character is painted as a selfish, manipulative, sociopath. Whereas the cheating females in so many of these stories (including this one) are viewed as complicated, or somewhat sympathetic. A forbidden, yet romantic tryst motivated by abuse or neglect, or some such. First example I can think of off the top of my head is the Titanic. Anyway, I digress.

I wouldn't characterize it so much as charitable or even sympathetic (I think it's icky) and I don't really make a distinction and wasn't thinking about the differences in how this type of behavior is treated in Hollywood movies and TV shows over the past few decades or whatever. I expressed the same non-judgmental type of attitude towards Lee's cheating, so I thought you meant it that way, too.

People cheat for all sorts of reasons far too long to go into here.

Well, there are certainly all sorts of self-serving excuses and rationalizations as to why people cheat, I agree with you there. "She is young and should be allowed a freebie or two" definitely qualifies as such, IMO.

The more i think about it though, the more I think the way the affair is treated in the show makes me think the writer(s) are not too-subtly underscoring the whole redpill/Men's Rights viewpoint - i.e: Women are always going to be tempted to sneak in a one-night-stand with the edgy bad boy, even (or especially) if they have a safe, boring, provider "beta"-type already locked down at home.

[SamDBL]

Hey, as long as you have the same charitable inclination towards men when they cheat, cool. As it stands in these dramas… at least in the last couple decades… the cheating man character is painted as a selfish, manipulative, sociopath. Whereas the cheating females in so many of these stories (including this one) are viewed as complicated, or somewhat sympathetic. A forbidden, yet romantic tryst motivated by abuse or neglect, or some such. First example I can think of off the top of my head is the Titanic. Anyway, I digress.

I wouldn't characterize it so much as charitable or even sympathetic (I think it's icky) and I don't really make a distinction and wasn't thinking about the differences in how this type of behavior is treated in Hollywood movies and TV shows over the past few decades or whatever. I expressed the same non-judgmental type of attitude towards Lee's cheating, so I thought you meant it that way, too.

People cheat for all sorts of reasons far too long to go into here.

Fair enough. I was veering for no real reason.