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I don’t know what I’m doing here. I can’t imagine many of you are going to have any interest in any of this. Maybe Greg? Maybe JGJR for some of it. Maybe Midge, if we talk about Madonna. First thing: I don’t keep up with any of this stuff. My exposure is 99% through my kid. A lot of it is not stuff I would listen to on my own, but I don’t recall ever hearing anything she liked that I thought was actually bad. YMMV, as a lot of middle aged rock dudes hate all modern pop on principle.

First up: Taylor Swift’s Evermore. I’m not sure if this is her newest record or not. She’s apparently released two this year. Actually, to call this pop is probably pretty inaccurate. There isn’t a whole lot on it that is upbeat or poppy. A lot of it is ruminations on loss in one form or another. It almost feels like her Mark Kozelek moment. I don’t think that I’ve ever been shy about admitting that I liked her music, but this one is on a deeper level for me. I would actually listen to this one on my own, not just in the car with the kid.

version sound wrote:I don’t know what I’m doing here. I can’t imagine many of you are going to have any interest in any of this. Maybe Greg? Maybe JGJR for some of it. Maybe Midge, if we talk about Madonna. First thing: I don’t keep up with any of this stuff. My exposure is 99% through my kid. A lot of it is not stuff I would listen to on my own, but I don’t recall ever hearing anything she liked that I thought was actually bad. YMMV, as a lot of middle aged rock dudes hate all modern pop on principle.

First up: Taylor Swift’s Evermore. I’m not sure if this is her newest record or not. She’s apparently released two this year. Actually, to call this pop is probably pretty inaccurate. There isn’t a whole lot on it that is upbeat or poppy. A lot of it is ruminations on loss in one form or another. It almost feels like her Mark Kozelek moment. I don’t think that I’ve ever been shy about admitting that I liked her music, but this one is on a deeper level for me. I would actually listen to this one on my own, not just in the car with the kid.

You're not wrong. I'm here for this thread. I've yet to hear evermore, but from that description, it sounds like I should. Have you heard Lover yet? I have to admit that I've bought a bunch of those Target exclusives on vinyl recently and we were very close to getting that one. I'm not sure about the quality of the pressing or anything. I know one of those (I think evermore) was produced by Aaron Dessner of The National and he plays on it, too, so the Kozelek comparison probably isn't that far off.

I have an 8-year-old who's starting to get into modern pop stuff a little and most of it isn't really to my taste tbh and sounds like an assault on my ears (not in that good way), but I perk up when he says he likes songs by Deltron 3030 or The Beastie Boys or more recently when I played the Bad Brains ROIR tape (same copy I've had since high school) and he loved it.

Yup, it’s the one with the National dude, because they duet on one track.

My daughter used to like some of my music (Best Coast, Sundays, even Nico and Give), but then she turned a corner and now she doesn’t like any of it. I haven’t heard Lover yet, but I did buy the kid the Target vinyl on Saturday.

I have heard everything Taylor Swift has ever put out and I have seen her live thanks to my niece and daughter. There are some songs that get stuck in my head and I sing out loud, usually with my daughter correcting my idea of the lyrics. I know most of Redthrough Lover. I have heard the two “new ones” a little bit and they seem pretty good, but the funny thing is as my daughter gets older, the less I hear Taylor’s music because my daughter is listening on head phones in her room with the door shut.


The joy of having a teenager.

version sound wrote:Yup, it’s the one with the National dude, because they duet on one track.

My daughter used to like some of my music (Best Coast, Sundays, even Nico and Give), but then she turned a corner and now she doesn’t like any of it. I haven’t heard Lover yet, but I did buy the kid the Target vinyl on Saturday.

Give her a few years and she might come back around on some of it. That's what I'd tell myself anyway.

The only record I've purchased for my son so far is the soundtrack to Superman III and mainly because of the cover.

pedro wrote:I have heard everything Taylor Swift has ever put out and I have seen her live thanks to my niece and daughter. There are some songs that get stuck in my head and I sing out loud, usually with my daughter correcting my idea of the lyrics. I know most of Redthrough Lover. I have heard the two “new ones” a little bit and they seem pretty good, but the funny thing is as my daughter gets older, the less I hear Taylor’s music because my daughter is listening on head phones in her room with the door shut.


The joy of having a teenager.

My daughter is headed in that direction, but I still hear the stuff in the car. Lately, she actually wants physical media, so we listened to Evermore on the actual stereo. She wants a record player/CD player for Christmas, so I might be hearing this stuff through a door soon.

Do Playboi Carti, Travis Scott, and Childish Gambino count as Modern Pop? Isn't pop synonymous with hip hop in 2021?

scannest wrote:Do Playboi Carti, Travis Scott, and Childish Gambino count as Modern Pop? Isn't pop synonymous with hip hop in 2021?

Close enough. Anything that hits the charts is popular enough to be “pop” IMO, plus, there’s a lot of crossover.

Not sure if this deviates from the topic, but M had a full remix album of 'Pop Muzik'.

I liked it!!!!

I've always gone by the maxim that a good song is a good song, no matter the genre, level of airplay, whatever. The last time this topic was kicked around here, I think I mentioned that I think "Shake it Off" was one of the best songs of the 2010s... I'd say the same about "Call Me Maybe" by Carly Rae Jepsen, "Locked Out of Heaven" by Bruno Mars, "Happy" by Pharrell Williams, etc. These are all great songs that people will remember the last decade by in the same way people think of the 70s when they hear "Dancing Queen", or the 80s when they hear "Beat It", or the 90s when they hear "MmmmBop"... I do think the vast majority of modern pop music is garbage, but I also thought the same thing about what was "pop" music 25, 30, even 40 years ago now. But there's always a few gems every year that become huge songs that cut through all the crap and have nearly universal, lasting appeal.

jaybird wrote:I've always gone by the maxim that a good song is a good song, no matter the genre, level of airplay, whatever. The last time this topic was kicked around here, I think I mentioned that I think "Shake it Off" was one of the best songs of the 2010s... I'd say the same about "Call Me Maybe" by Carly Rae Jepsen, "Locked Out of Heaven" by Bruno Mars, "Happy" by Pharrell Williams, etc. These are all great songs that people will remember the last decade by in the same way people think of the 70s when they hear "Dancing Queen", or the 80s when they hear "Beat It", or the 90s when they hear "MmmmBop"... I do think the vast majority of modern pop music is garbage, but I also thought the same thing about what was "pop" music 25, 30, even 40 years ago now. But there's always a few gems every year that become huge songs that cut through all the crap and have nearly universal, lasting appeal.

I generally agree with much of the above, especially the parts about "Shake It Off" and "Locked Out of Heaven" (and a bunch of Bruno Mars' other singles or records he appears on like Mark Ronson's "Uptown Funk," etc.). I'd add "Rock Your Body" (Justin Timberlake), "Since U Been Gone" (Kelly Clarkson) as 2 of the best singles of this century (maybe my favorites) or the 2000s at the very least. "I Want It That Way" (Backstreet Boys) is a jam, too, but I don't know if that's late '90s or early '00s. Whatevs.

This one is new to the playlist. I haven’t really heard Billie Eilish before (knowingly, at least). A quiet Fiona Apple-ish beginning leads to a rocking climax about 3 minutes in. Pret-ty good stuff. I like the fact that a lot of these artists aren’t really tied to any particular genre. I like the way this song mixes the quiet solo first half with the epic rock-out of the second half.

1. When I took my daughter to see Harry Potter on Broadway a couple of years ago, I ended up standing next to Billie Eilish on the street after the show. I had no idea who she was but my daughter was very excited.

2. Since then, Billie Eilish has done something or said something (I think homophobic, but I don't remember) and now my daughter hates her.

pedro wrote:1. When I took my daughter to see Harry Potter on Broadway a couple of years ago, I ended up standing next to Billie Eilish on the street after the show. I had no idea who she was but my daughter was very excited.

2. Since then, Billie Eilish has done something or said something (I think homophobic, but I don't remember) and now my daughter hates her.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Ei ... sonal_life

Didn't know any of that; her 1st full-length did nothing for me, but I haven't heard any of the new stuff yet. Around the time of its release or a few months beforehand, I briefly worked with someone who was a huge fan, had all of the early EPs, and then like the next month she was headlining Radio City Music Hall and I'd never even heard of her before that (this was spring 2019).

Christgau called Eilish's first full length the best debut by a teenager since Elvis Presley (I guess Elvis first entered Sun Studios when he was 19. "That's Alright" came out a couple months later).
At first I thought that was pure hyperbole, but then I started to think - how many actual teenagers have recorded and released important, impactful music? Of the top of my head, I'm thinking Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson although it's easy to argue that neither one reached anything near a peak until well into their 20s.
Any thoughts?

How old was Justin Bieber when his first hit song came out? Not sure if he was a teenager or whether that song had any lasting impression. It didn't on me but may have for others into pop music.

I had not heard of Eilish until I heard a song of hers covered by The Interrupters.

That is about all I can add to this thread as it is out of my league.

lewdd wrote:How old was Justin Bieber when his first hit song came out? Not sure if he was a teenager or whether that song had any lasting impression.

Yeah, Bieber could have been 15 for all I know, but no one has ever claimed he was "the best since Elvis" at anything.

scannest wrote:Christgau called Eilish's first full length the best debut by a teenager since Elvis Presley (I guess Elvis first entered Sun Studios when he was 19. "That's Alright" came out a couple months later).
At first I thought that was pure hyperbole, but then I started to think - how many actual teenagers have recorded and released important, impactful music? Of the top of my head, I'm thinking Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson although it's easy to argue that neither one reached anything near a peak until well into their 20s.
Any thoughts?

The Sex Pistols were 19 or 20 when Bollocks came out. Rites of Spring were in their late teens when they recorded their album. I’m pretty sure Void and Faith were high school kids. Lots of young people in punk/hardcore.

version sound wrote:The Sex Pistols were 19 or 20 when Bollocks came out. Rites of Spring were in their late teens when they recorded their album. I’m pretty sure Void and Faith were high school kids. Lots of young people in punk/hardcore.

Johnny and Paul were 21, Steve was 22. Sid had just turned 20, but he doesn't count.
Guy was still 19 when RoS debut was released. None of those other punk/hardcore bands matter. You might as well point out that the members of OLD SKULL were still 10 when their record came out.

If you are a grouchy old man who doesn’t like hardcore, then sure. But if you actually do, it means something. No one ever made a better hardcore record than the Void side of Faith/Void. Alec was 17 when Subject to Change came out, which is also an all time top 10 hardcore record.

version sound wrote:If you are a grouchy old man who doesn’t like hardcore, then sure.

You have your answer (although I'm not actually all that grouchy)!

scannest wrote:

version sound wrote:If you are a grouchy old man who doesn’t like hardcore, then sure.

You have your answer (although I'm not actually all that grouchy)!

Just your Daghouse persona

version sound wrote:If you are a grouchy old man who doesn’t like hardcore, then sure. But if you actually do, it means something. No one ever made a better hardcore record than the Void side of Faith/Void. Alec was 17 when Subject to Change came out, which is also an all time top 10 hardcore record.

All of that pretty much or really just that the Faith/Void split Lp is one of my favorite records of all-time in any genre, bar none. STC is a massively important proto-Revolution Summer type record, too.

JGJR wrote:STC is a massively important proto-Revolution Summer type record, too.

Isn't that kinda like saying "Arli$$ is a massively important proto-Pay Cable type sitcom?" I mean, I'm not gonna argue you're factually incorrect, but...
And yeah I'm being a dick but I did ask for teenage artists that might compare to Elvis and yer giving me Void and Faith.

scannest wrote:

JGJR wrote:STC is a massively important proto-Revolution Summer type record, too.

Isn't that kinda like saying "Arli$$ is a massively important proto-Pay Cable type sitcom?" I mean, I'm not gonna argue you're factually incorrect, but...
And yeah I'm being a dick but I did ask for teenage artists that might compare to Elvis and yer giving me Void and Faith.

Well, I’d love to know how Billie Eilish is comparable to Elvis in any way. She is certainly talented, and I enjoy what I’ve heard by her, but the initial comparison itself seems awfully dubious.

version sound wrote:Well, I’d love to know how Billie Eilish is comparable to Elvis in any way. She is certainly talented, and I enjoy what I’ve heard by her, but the initial comparison itself seems awfully dubious.

You'd have to ask the Dean. She seems like a smart, level-headed kid despite all the insane popularity (I especially enjoyed her HOT ONES episode), but her music is pretty snoozy.

scannest wrote:

JGJR wrote:STC is a massively important proto-Revolution Summer type record, too.

Isn't that kinda like saying "Arli$$ is a massively important proto-Pay Cable type sitcom?" I mean, I'm not gonna argue you're factually incorrect, but...
And yeah I'm being a dick but I did ask for teenage artists that might compare to Elvis and yer giving me Void and Faith.

Now you're just being silly. I wouldn't ever compare The Faith and Void to Elvis, but I don't think anyone outside of The Beatles, Dylan, and MJ have ever had that kind of cultural impact.

That still doesn't mean that they (The Faith, for instance) don't matter. Why don't you go ahead and ask any of our DC heroes how much they mattered and I'm sure they'd give you an answer more similar to mine or VS than yours. In other words, please quit trolling. You're on a message board for a melodic hardcore band from DC, lest you forget.

I haven't thought about Arli$$ in years, btw. Good one! I never watched it, tbh, but I remember seeing ads for it all through Sopranos, Sex and the City, and early Curb episodes back then when me and my then-girlfriend used to watch those shows regularly since she had HBO and I had a tiny boxy TV with rabbit ears back then lol.

As for Billie Eilish, your take on here is very similar to mine. Level-headed and seemingly likeable, sure, but her music is just not to my taste (what I've heard at least), so either Christgau still has his finger on the pulse after all of these years or he's just full of hyperbole. I honestly don't know what my old ears don't hear and his way older ears do, but vive le difference, I guess.