Joe Rogan.

[xxxMidgexxx]

This dude is really a piece of work. To be honest, I've enjoyed his YouTube video casts for a long time.

But seriously...is he REALLY this stupid or is this all to get the attention he's obviously going to get??

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/570449-joe-rogan-says-hes-taking-ivermectin-after-covid-19-diagnosis

[lewdd]

A doctor on another forum I participate in posted this last week. Who knows what to believe?

Actually, it has been used to treat parasitic intestinal worms for both humans and animals for over 30 years. 3 or 4 Billion (yes Billion) doses used. Minor side effects mostly in those with worms (due to the dead worms breaking down in the body?). All the hubbub over veterinary version is not because it is not proven in humans. It is because the veterinary versions are not produced for human consumption. i.e. you should not take veterinary penicillin for that reason. Probably would not hurt you at all but not produced to the same standards as human meds. Only reason the vet thing came up was because people who wanted it early could not get their docs to prescribe it for CV. AMA and CDC, and NIH would not clear it for that use. Docs afraid they would be cancelled. Since it is oral, I doubt the vet version would have any side effects for humans. Safe dosing is accomplished by weight of patient, horse, or human. It is what you have been giving your dogs for worms for the last 30-40 years. Has been approved for humans since 1988. For intestinal parasites, scabies, head lice etc. Its antiviral effects have been noted in recent years but not with approvals as yet. The Japanese doctor who developed it won a Nobel Prize in Medicine in 2015 for worldwide success for treating the diseases it was made for. Those diseases killed a lot of folks and animals before Ivermectin.

Note: My wife and I took doses of it when we could not get vaccinated, both because of our ages and medical conditions made us targets for a bad result from CV.
My wife reported a mild headache the night after, but I had zero side effects. I felt that its use fit with the Hippocratic Oath "First do no harm" as it is a proven safe drug. The two doses we each took lasted several weeks and we would have repeated that monthly if we had not gotten vaccinated. My doctor prescribed it after the NIH gave it approval for "off schedule" use. If either of us gets the Delta CV before we get our "Booster", we will take it again. Currently, most of the proper studies have not shown it to be much help in patients already hospitalized with serious disease. But!!! as a prophylactic given to people at high risk, it has shown a dramatic reduction in CV in those people. The studies are still underway so there is more to come. Sorry for being long winded, but I thought this info was of some value.

[xxxMidgexxx]

Who knows what to believe?? Really?

https://today.tamu.edu/2021/08/27/texas-am-expert-warns-against-using-ivermectin-to-treat-covid-19/

https://www.valleycentral.com/news/health/coronavirus/battle-of-misinformation-and-covid-doctors-warn-people-not-to-take-ivermectin-to-treat-covid/

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/570519-american-medical-association-calls-for-immediate-end-to-use-of-ivermectin

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2021/09/01/kentucky-poison-control-ivermectin-covid-treatment-side-effects-vaccine/5649248001/

https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/ivermectin-use-surges-despite-no-evidence-it-treats-covid-19-why-are-people-still-taking-it/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/health/covid-ivermectin-prescriptions.html

https://www.wivb.com/health/ivermectin-horse-deworming-tablets-dangerous-for-humans-and-not-approved-covid-19-treatment/

https://www.kwqc.com/2021/08/24/fact-check-can-ivermectin-cure-or-prevent-covid-19/

[captain2man]

Here's Joe's video:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTSsA8wAR2-/

He didn't trust the vaccine, but, yet, he "threw the kitchen sink at it. All kinds of meds" and then lists like a dozen different things he took which I'm sure he doesn't know anything more about than he does the vaccine (including monoclonal antibodies which, like the vaccine, was only approved under an emergency use authorization).

[lewdd]

Yeah, it amazes me how someone can be anti vaccine and use some other remedies they are using.

The part we don't hear though is that some of these other remedies have worked in other countries, are being tested by our government agencies that have approved emergency use of the vaccines, etc.

Too often we are only getting one side of the story by whomever is paying more to get to the top of the search lists on topics.

Good or bad, I am only following government approved options until I am making a life or death decision and will probably try everything in the kitchen sink at that point.

[FormerLurker]

Up next: coronavirus is a FALSE FLAG!

[captain2man]

Yeah, it amazes me how someone can be anti vaccine and use some other remedies they are using.

The part we don't hear though is that some of these other remedies have worked in other countries, are being tested by our government agencies that have approved emergency use of the vaccines, etc.

Too often we are only getting one side of the story by whomever is paying more to get to the top of the search lists on topics.

Good or bad, I am only following government approved options until I am making a life or death decision and will probably try everything in the kitchen sink at that point.

I think finding a therapeutic for COVID would be huge - and maybe Ivermectin is that miracle drug. I don't know enough about it. I've heard that it's been used effectively. But people here are dying because they're stupid & they're going into vet clinics and buying it and taking it with no regard to dosage. If you ARE going to take it - at least make sure it's under a doctor's supervision.

I'm glad Rogan is feeling better....but chances are - the reason he's feeling better isn't because of the Ivermectin....it's because he's gone through the worst of it, is in incredibly good shape AND probably because of those antibodies he took (which the vast majority of his audience would be priced out of).

[gregpolard]

Joe Rogan is an idiot

/ thread

[captain2man]

Joe Rogan is an idiot

/ thread

Joe Rogan is also the most popular podcaster on the planet & wields a tremendous amount of influence.

Many of his listeners will listen to that Instagram clip and say, "See - he feels better - Ivermectin works!"

[patient_ot]

It is a fucking de-wormer for livestock. It is not an anti-viral medication. It's not going to do anything for C-19. If you take this shit thinking it will, you are a fucking moron and need to go back to middle school science class.

If this offends anyone go fuck yourself.

[gregpolard]

Joe Rogan is an idiot

/ thread

Joe Rogan is also the most popular podcaster on the planet & wields a tremendous amount of influence.

Many of his listeners will listen to that Instagram clip and say, "See - he feels better - Ivermectin works!"

Yep. Which is why I debated adding "and dangerous" to my post. He's trash. I was a fan of his interviews for a bit but I just can't take him anymore.

[JGJR]

Joe Rogan is an idiot

/ thread

This. So much this. I admittedly liked him for a split second during the primary last year when he said he would vote for Bernie, but almost everything else he's said on political/social/medical/whatever topics has been, well, idiotic.

[FormerLurker]

It is a fucking de-wormer for livestock. It is not an anti-viral medication. It's not going to do anything for C-19. If you take this shit thinking it will, you are a fucking moron and need to go back to middle school science class.

If this offends anyone go fuck yourself.

PREACH

[JGJR]

It is a fucking de-wormer for livestock. It is not an anti-viral medication. It's not going to do anything for C-19. If you take this shit thinking it will, you are a fucking moron and need to go back to middle school science class.

If this offends anyone go fuck yourself.

Thank you. The same people who complain about free speech or whatever cant handle the truth.

[the mean]

Posted this on Facebook last week:

Good to see people refusing the Big Pharma vaccines and instead treating themselves with ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, which I assume were developed by the DIY hardcore scene.

[jaybird]

I agree people should not be ordering veterinary-grade ivermectin paste from the farm supply store to self-medicate their COVID symptoms. But as a drug, it has long been used safely, for humans, in many, many countries for more than 30 years as an anti-parasitic medication. It may also have some anti-viral and anti-inflammatory properties, which is why people are using it for COVID. Here is a study that was just published in the latest issue of American Journal of Therapeutics, a long-standing, peer-reviewed medical journal, that suggests that properly prescribed and administered, ivermectin may, MAY be beneficial in treating COVID-19:

https://journals.lww.com/americantherap ... _of.7.aspx

Meta-analysis of 15 trials found that ivermectin reduced risk of death compared with no ivermectin (average risk ratio 0.38, 95% confidence interval 0.19–0.73; n = 2438; I2 = 49%; moderate-certainty evidence). This result was confirmed in a trial sequential analysis using the same DerSimonian–Laird method that underpinned the unadjusted analysis. This was also robust against a trial sequential analysis using the Biggerstaff–Tweedie method. Low-certainty evidence found that ivermectin prophylaxis reduced COVID-19 infection by an average 86% (95% confidence interval 79%–91%). Secondary outcomes provided less certain evidence. Low-certainty evidence suggested that there may be no benefit with ivermectin for “need for mechanical ventilation,” whereas effect estimates for “improvement” and “deterioration” clearly favored ivermectin use. Severe adverse events were rare among treatment trials and evidence of no difference was assessed as low certainty. Evidence on other secondary outcomes was very low certainty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... erapeutics

It could certainly be picked apart or contradicted by other studies, but that suggests to me that the argument for using a proven safe and effective drug for humans in treating a new disease is not a completely absurd proposition on its face.

Just to be clear: I am not a doctor; I have had COVID; I am double-vaccinated; I have no interest or plans in taking ivermectin if i am ever diagnosed with COVID again; I do see the funny side of a meat-head like Joe Rogan dosing himself with a medicine that in the U.S., is primarily used for de-worming animals... I just think that the amount of self-righteous outrage this whole topic is inducing on both sides of the argument is extremely predictable and tiresome. Again, what should be a scientific and medical discussion has been turned into yet another social-media culture-war litmus test. zzzzzz.

tl;dr: JAYBIRD EATS HORSE PASTE LOL

[xxxMidgexxx]

a long-standing, peer-reviewed medical journal, that suggests that properly prescribed and administered, ivermectin may, MAY be beneficial in treating COVID-19:

and that in itself is the issue at hand. In fact there are probably TONS of drugs that could be beneficial in the treatment. The point is that right now, there are no standards or scientifically established dosages and warnings. Everything is a gamble.

[lewdd]

I just think that the amount of self-righteous outrage this whole topic is inducing on BOTH sides of the argument is extremely predictable and tiresome. Again, what should be a scientific and medical discussion has been turned into yet another social-media culture-war litmus test. zzzzzz.

AMEN!

[FormerLurker]

JAYBIRD EATS HORSE PASTE LOL

[jaybird]

JAYBIRD EATS HORSE PASTE LOL

[SamDBL]

I agree people should not be ordering veterinary-grade ivermectin paste from the farm supply store to self-medicate their COVID symptoms. But as a drug, it has long been used safely, for humans, in many, many countries for more than 30 years as an anti-parasitic medication. It may also have some anti-viral and anti-inflammatory properties, which is why people are using it for COVID. Here is a study that was just published in the latest issue of American Journal of Therapeutics, a long-standing, peer-reviewed medical journal, that suggests that properly prescribed and administered, ivermectin may, MAY be beneficial in treating COVID-19:

https://journals.lww.com/americantherap ... _of.7.aspx

Meta-analysis of 15 trials found that ivermectin reduced risk of death compared with no ivermectin (average risk ratio 0.38, 95% confidence interval 0.19–0.73; n = 2438; I2 = 49%; moderate-certainty evidence). This result was confirmed in a trial sequential analysis using the same DerSimonian–Laird method that underpinned the unadjusted analysis. This was also robust against a trial sequential analysis using the Biggerstaff–Tweedie method. Low-certainty evidence found that ivermectin prophylaxis reduced COVID-19 infection by an average 86% (95% confidence interval 79%–91%). Secondary outcomes provided less certain evidence. Low-certainty evidence suggested that there may be no benefit with ivermectin for “need for mechanical ventilation,” whereas effect estimates for “improvement” and “deterioration” clearly favored ivermectin use. Severe adverse events were rare among treatment trials and evidence of no difference was assessed as low certainty. Evidence on other secondary outcomes was very low certainty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... erapeutics

It could certainly be picked apart or contradicted by other studies, but that suggests to me that the argument for using a proven safe and effective drug for humans in treating a new disease is not a completely absurd proposition on its face.

Just to be clear: I am not a doctor; I have had COVID; I am double-vaccinated; I have no interest or plans in taking ivermectin if i am ever diagnosed with COVID again; I do see the funny side of a meat-head like Joe Rogan dosing himself with a medicine that in the U.S., is primarily used for de-worming animals... I just think that the amount of self-righteous outrage this whole topic is inducing on both sides of the argument is extremely predictable and tiresome. Again, what should be a scientific and medical discussion has been turned into yet another social-media culture-war litmus test. zzzzzz.

tl;dr: JAYBIRD EATS HORSE PASTE LOL

The hysterical inclination to scoff at this stuff and fly off the fuckin handle is perplexing. I say that as a vax advocate.

[FormerLurker]

It's pretty simple. Conspiracy nuts who think the vaccine contains a Bill Gates microchip refuse to believe that science can vet the vaccine as safe, but as soon as the shit hits the fan they're the first to scramble to any bizarro homeopathic remedy to save their asses. It's backwards and they need to be ridiculed. The fact that they are forced to go to Tractor Supply to buy it tells you all you need.

[jaybird]

It's pretty simple. Conspiracy nuts who think the vaccine contains a Bill Gates microchip refuse to believe that science can vet the vaccine as safe, but as soon as the shit hits the fan they're the first to scramble to any bizarro homeopathic remedy to save their asses. It's backwards and they need to be ridiculed. The fact that they are forced to go to Tractor Supply to buy it tells you all you need.

i agree, it is pretty fuckin funny.

[FormerLurker]

JAYBIRD EATS HORSE PASTE LOL

I'm now fully expecting your reviews of various vintages of horse paste.

[jaybird]

JAYBIRD EATS HORSE PASTE LOL

I'm now fully expecting your reviews of various vintages of horse paste.

[SamDBL]

JAYBIRD EATS HORSE PASTE LOL

I'm now fully expecting your reviews of various vintages of horse paste.

[xxxMidgexxx]

Whodda thunk?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/570519-american-medical-association-calls-for-immediate-end-to-use-of-ivermectin?fbclid=IwAR3uyNieW_XY0JR9vgOOf7Fla0y_nkNX-ckFQ65eNB_V_jdJHhJrVI-A-PQ

[FormerLurker]

Whodda thunk?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/570519-american-medical-association-calls-for-immediate-end-to-use-of-ivermectin?fbclid=IwAR3uyNieW_XY0JR9vgOOf7Fla0y_nkNX-ckFQ65eNB_V_jdJHhJrVI-A-PQ

But, this guy I know on an anonymous internet forum said it might work! So, you know, there's that!

[SamDBL]

Whodda thunk?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/570519-american-medical-association-calls-for-immediate-end-to-use-of-ivermectin?fbclid=IwAR3uyNieW_XY0JR9vgOOf7Fla0y_nkNX-ckFQ65eNB_V_jdJHhJrVI-A-PQ

But, this guy I know on an anonymous internet forum said it might work! So, you know, there's that!

Are you talking about Jason Bowes?

[jaybird]

Whodda thunk?

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/570519-american-medical-association-calls-for-immediate-end-to-use-of-ivermectin?fbclid=IwAR3uyNieW_XY0JR9vgOOf7Fla0y_nkNX-ckFQ65eNB_V_jdJHhJrVI-A-PQ

But, this guy I know on an anonymous internet forum said it might work! So, you know, there's that!

Are you talking about Jason Bowes?

[FormerLurker]

lol

[JGJR]

The hysterical inclination to scoff at this stuff and fly off the fuckin handle is perplexing. I say that as a vax advocate.

No, what's *perplexing* is the false equivalence you and others on here seem to take delight in. One viewpoint advocates vaccines, saving lives, taking public health threats seriously, etc, and basically living in reality. The other side advocates malaria drugs they hold stock in and fucking horse de-wormers to treat a respiratory illness. Need I say more? Because I fucking will.

[xxxMidgexxx]

How many dumb fucks on Fox News advocated this drug as "Promising"?

Answer: Many. Many dumb fucks.

[JGJR]

How many dumb fucks on Fox News advocated this drug as "Promising"?

Answer: Many. Many dumb fucks.

Indeed.

https://newrepublic.com/article/163466/ ... id-vaccine

There are also these fun facts. Follow the money. Always.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... nufacture/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ead-stock/

This part of the New Republic article is really great.

"This tension between public and private interests drove messaging about the science of the virus itself. “Reopening the economy”—a rosy euphemism for rolling back public health regulations and forcing vulnerable people back into low-paying jobs by cutting off public assistance, all to protect rich people’s profits—demanded downplaying the severity of the pandemic. Hydroxychloroquine—another generic drug that generated early buzz in right-wing circles as a Covid-19 miracle cure, only to prove useless in repeated clinical trials—served exactly that purpose: If this disease could be cleared up with a cheap pill, why bother changing our lives and threatening our bottom lines to avoid it? Ironically, President Donald Trump initially touted an eventual vaccine in the same way, taking credit for its development when it was granted emergency use authorization last fall, and later tweeting, “The vaccine and the vaccine rollout are getting the best of reviews … get those “shots” everyone!” The implication couldn’t have been clearer: Relax, a quick fix is coming."

[xxxMidgexxx]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... nufacture/

Yup. Trump is STILL to this day pushing that hydroxychloroquine snake oil scam. And yeah, we get it, its good for certain things...just not for what these right wing weirdos (who have stock in the pharmaceutical company) claim it treats.

Laura Ingraham, Cucker Tardson and those other couch potatoes on TV in the morning really should be removed or at the very least be made to go on TV and tell their followers that they lied. For profit.

[xxxMidgexxx]

double post

[SamDBL]

The hysterical inclination to scoff at this stuff and fly off the fuckin handle is perplexing. I say that as a vax advocate.

No, what's *perplexing* is the false equivalence you and others on here seem to take delight in. One viewpoint advocates vaccines, saving lives, taking public health threats seriously, etc, and basically living in reality. The other side advocates malaria drugs they hold stock in and fucking horse de-wormers to treat a respiratory illness. Need I say more? Because I fucking will.

Oh fuck off. Seriously. The constant holier-than-thou routine from you is beyond nauseating. You’re the type of person that thinks if you give a bum 5 bucks and the person next to you doesn’t, that you are legitimately a better human being than him. That’s how simplistic of a world view this is. Putting aside the fact that percentage/population wise, black people are the most vaccine resistant… let’s just assume that every person that makes the calculation to not get it is somehow a moronic trumper just trying to be a world class contrarian or some shit (which I don’t believe or assume). *You* have broadly contributed to this problem. I’ve seen you do it in real time n this board. You expect people that you view, and publically charge as evil, dipshit nazis to suddenly act communally with you instead of just doing for themselves (isn’t that the argument… you have to get the jab for your fellow man).

Imo, people not getting vax’d is somewhat morally analogous to people not wearing rubbers when fucking. We know that’s how std’s are spread. We know some std’s are 100% fatal. Yet many of us make the calculation and roll the dice. A lot of people will die from aids as a result. Yet somehow, we don’t think of people that catch or unknowingly spread aids due to carlessness as abhorrent Neanderthals. We don’t argue that that hospitals shouldn’t treat them because it’s their fault. We don’t begrudge them trying scientifically unproven, new age remedies. Yes, I realize that aids is less transmissible than COVID. That’s beside the point. If we morally condemn people for getting/spreading COVID because they chose not to wear a mask or get a jab, then we should be doing the same for people getting/spreading hiv by not choosing to wear a rubber. Yet no one is comfortable doing that. Because COVID has arisen in the most moronic socio political time in the history of the country. And that’s how we do things, now. Again to the broader point, we have people such as yourself to thank for that. So thanks!

[target]

I wish this thread hadn’t gone into ad hominem territory.

I’d venture to say two things- 1. Black people may be more vaccine resistant than the broader population because of the disgraceful history of medical experimentation on Black people and 2. Gay people were in fact demonized for the spread of AIDS and still get attacked to this day.

My observation is limited to those two points - I don’t have anything to add to the wider discussion. I’m also not blaming you for going ad hominem. I don’t know what you and JHJRs history is on this board. Have you ever met in person? You can say your argument stinks, but saying “you’re the type of person…” sinks the discourse

[SamDBL]

I wish this thread hadn’t gone into ad hominem territory.

I’d venture to say two things- 1. Black people may be more vaccine resistant than the broader population because of the disgraceful history of medical experimentation on Black people and

*Total* cop out weak sauce argument that keeps getting trotted out. A) the government has lied and secretly experimented (and later admitted to it) to everyone in this country. Not just black people. But you are forced to make some leap in logic in service of making an exception because you’re default is to demonize anyone willfully not vaccinated. If you didn’t have such an over simplified worldview in which people unvaccinated=categorically bad, you wouldn’t have to resort to such flimsy claims. Also, you’re just coming up with an opinion and motivation for black people and assigning it to them. With zero evidence. I thought there was some kind of rule against that. B. That wasn’t my point. My point was that everyone seems happy to relegate non vax’d to the dumb redneck/trumper bin. That’s obviously not true just on the face of it based on the sheer numbers. Unless you think large swathes of the black population are dumb rednecks/trumpers.

2. Gay people were in fact demonized for the spread of AIDS and still get attacked to this day.

Yes. By repugnant people. Whom we all agree are repugnant. Because it’s a repugnant practice. Do I need to further spell out my point?

[target]

You’re projecting!

[lewdd]

This is another fine example of you are either with us or you are against us argument from both the left and the right and neither of them believe you can be in the middle.

[SamDBL]

I’m also not blaming you for going ad hominem. I don’t know what you and JHJRs history is on this board. Have you ever met in person? You can say your argument stinks, but saying “you’re the type of person…” sinks the discourse

When you see the world in unrealistic black and white terms, every discussion of a broader point seems like ad hominem. But I’ll let that go.
I will say that discussions on this board are meaningless venting to me in the grand scheme of things. Even though people believe what they are saying on this stuff online, I think (would hope) that it represents an infinitesimal aspect of their being. And that in person, these discussions wouldn’t even register. With rare exception, I can’t even keep the screen names straight on here. When I say ‘you’re the type of person…’ I’m responding to a general theme in posts (if they are recent enough that I remember) or a general Dag board persona.

[SamDBL]

You’re projecting!

I’m projecting *truth*, motherfucker.

[jaybird]

People on MY side are logical, intelligent and have only the purest and most noble of motives. The people on the OTHER side are irrational, cognitively-impaired cretins who only ever act out of base self-interest and/or bigoted resentment and fear.

What side am I on?

[lewdd]

People on MY side are logical, intelligent and have only the purest and most noble of motives. The people on the OTHER side are irrational, cognitively-impaired cretins who only ever act out of base self-interest and/or bigoted resentment and fear.

What side am I on?

Far left and far right IMO

[JGJR]

The hysterical inclination to scoff at this stuff and fly off the fuckin handle is perplexing. I say that as a vax advocate.

No, what's *perplexing* is the false equivalence you and others on here seem to take delight in. One viewpoint advocates vaccines, saving lives, taking public health threats seriously, etc, and basically living in reality. The other side advocates malaria drugs they hold stock in and fucking horse de-wormers to treat a respiratory illness. Need I say more? Because I fucking will.

Oh fuck off. Seriously. The constant holier-than-thou routine from you is beyond nauseating. You’re the type of person that thinks if you give a bum 5 bucks and the person next to you doesn’t, that you are legitimately a better human being than him. That’s how simplistic of a world view this is. Putting aside the fact that percentage/population wise, black people are the most vaccine resistant… let’s just assume that every person that makes the calculation to not get it is somehow a moronic trumper just trying to be a world class contrarian or some shit (which I don’t believe or assume). *You* have broadly contributed to this problem. I’ve seen you do it in real time n this board. You expect people that you view, and publically charge as evil, dipshit nazis to suddenly act communally with you instead of just doing for themselves (isn’t that the argument… you have to get the jab for your fellow man).

Imo, people not getting vax’d is somewhat morally analogous to people not wearing rubbers when fucking. We know that’s how std’s are spread. We know some std’s are 100% fatal. Yet many of us make the calculation and roll the dice. A lot of people will die from aids as a result. Yet somehow, we don’t think of people that catch or unknowingly spread aids due to carlessness as abhorrent Neanderthals. We don’t argue that that hospitals shouldn’t treat them because it’s their fault. We don’t begrudge them trying scientifically unproven, new age remedies. Yes, I realize that aids is less transmissible than COVID. That’s beside the point. If we morally condemn people for getting/spreading COVID because they chose not to wear a mask or get a jab, then we should be doing the same for people getting/spreading hiv by not choosing to wear a rubber. Yet no one is comfortable doing that. Because COVID has arisen in the most moronic socio political time in the history of the country. And that’s how we do things, now. Again to the broader point, we have people such as yourself to thank for that. So thanks!

I must be doing something right to get you to insult me this way, though that's not difficult for you, it seems. That's your thing, but why? What do you gain from it? I'm not the one trying to make himself feel morally superior; just having my say. You know nothing about me.

I don't think that giving someone 5 bucks or not or whatever makes someone a better or worse person. There are only positive or negative actions and I try not to say "oh, that person is bad" or whatever. And what the fuck is wrong with having compassion for someone struggling? You imply this, but I don't get it. Whatever.

Do you know what much larger problem virulent anti-vaxxers and even half-hearted apologists like yourself have contributed to? Tons of preventable COVID deaths, for starters? Plus, as target said, you likely know damn well why black people are some of the most resistant to the idea of vaccines. With that said, I think most of the modern anti-vax stuff has been spread by folks like Jenny McCarthy and the like.

I would also never say that hospitals shouldn't treat unvaccinated patients as they do and should have an obligation to try everyone who is sick up to their capabilities, but when precious hospital beds are taken up by medical advice ignoring, ivermectin-injecting fools, well it's time to just say that this is BS.

[JGJR]

I wish this thread hadn’t gone into ad hominem territory.

I’d venture to say two things- 1. Black people may be more vaccine resistant than the broader population because of the disgraceful history of medical experimentation on Black people and

*Total* cop out weak sauce argument that keeps getting trotted out. A) the government has lied and secretly experimented (and later admitted to it) to everyone in this country. Not just black people. But you are forced to make some leap in logic in service of making an exception because you’re default is to demonize anyone willfully not vaccinated. If you didn’t have such an over simplified worldview in which people unvaccinated=categorically bad, you wouldn’t have to resort to such flimsy claims. Also, you’re just coming up with an opinion and motivation for black people and assigning it to them. With zero evidence. I thought there was some kind of rule against that. B. That wasn’t my point. My point was that everyone seems happy to relegate non vax’d to the dumb redneck/trumper bin. That’s obviously not true just on the face of it based on the sheer numbers. Unless you think large swathes of the black population are dumb rednecks/trumpers.

2. Gay people were in fact demonized for the spread of AIDS and still get attacked to this day.

Yes. By repugnant people. Whom we all agree are repugnant. Because it’s a repugnant practice. Do I need to further spell out my point?

Please read a fucking book, preferably on the Tuskegee experiments, and then kindly leave the rest of us alone.

Also, revisionist history is fascinating. You pretend that homophobia wasn't mainstream 30-35 years ago, but I remember things differently.

I come here to bullshit about music, culture, et al. not to engage in these stupid debates.

[JGJR]

This is another fine example of you are either with us or you are against us argument from both the left and the right and neither of them believe you can be in the middle.

No. Just no. The hard left and the hard right will never be the same and my point was that I'm tired of this false equivalence perpeuated by too many. We just want folks to have healthcare, end poverty and war, etc. or at least move the needle closer to that and the right denies that people are dying during a global pandemic and wants to make them take horse dewormers. You get that, right?

[SamDBL]

I wish this thread hadn’t gone into ad hominem territory.

I’d venture to say two things- 1. Black people may be more vaccine resistant than the broader population because of the disgraceful history of medical experimentation on Black people and

*Total* cop out weak sauce argument that keeps getting trotted out. A) the government has lied and secretly experimented (and later admitted to it) to everyone in this country. Not just black people. But you are forced to make some leap in logic in service of making an exception because you’re default is to demonize anyone willfully not vaccinated. If you didn’t have such an over simplified worldview in which people unvaccinated=categorically bad, you wouldn’t have to resort to such flimsy claims. Also, you’re just coming up with an opinion and motivation for black people and assigning it to them. With zero evidence. I thought there was some kind of rule against that. B. That wasn’t my point. My point was that everyone seems happy to relegate non vax’d to the dumb redneck/trumper bin. That’s obviously not true just on the face of it based on the sheer numbers. Unless you think large swathes of the black population are dumb rednecks/trumpers.

2. Gay people were in fact demonized for the spread of AIDS and still get attacked to this day.

Yes. By repugnant people. Whom we all agree are repugnant. Because it’s a repugnant practice. Do I need to further spell out my point?

Please read a fucking book, preferably on the Tuskegee experiments, and then kindly leave the rest of us alone.

Also, revisionist history is fascinating. You pretend that homophobia wasn't mainstream 30-35 years ago, but I remember things differently.

I come here to bullshit about music, culture, et al. not to engage in these stupid debates.

Unreal. You cite the Tuskeegee experiments like it's some kind of mic drop revelation. There are dozens of examples of the same exact things the government did to non-black soldiers and citizens. The funny thing is you (and others) thinking that suggesting that black people are dumb enough to go with a conspiracy theory that the old honkey in the white house is experimenting on them in 2021 while simultaneously taking the vaccine himself and administering it to the entire country is somehow different than your other imaginary white person that is avoiding the jab because he thinks a microchip is being implanted in him. It's also funny that you find one excusable, and the other abhorrent. What a weird set of circumstances you've been forced to weave together in your head. Anyway, luckily, it's all 100% based on conjecture with no evidence to support it. So it's not real consequential.
As for the aids thing, you continually miss the point. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. Condeming people for catching and spreading aids because they willfully neglect to wear a condom is bad, right? We agree? Condeming people for catching and spreading covid because they willfully neglect to get a vaccine is the exact moral analog. I'm sure someone is dying to bring up the specific differences in the virus as an argument (what about the kids?!?!?)... but that has absolutely no bearing on the moral principle operating between the two.

[SamDBL]

This is another fine example of you are either with us or you are against us argument from both the left and the right and neither of them believe you can be in the middle.

No. Just no. The hard left and the hard right will never be the same and my point was that I'm tired of this false equivalence perpeuated by too many. We just want folks to have healthcare, end poverty and war, etc. or at least move the needle closer to that and the right denies that people are dying during a global pandemic and wants to make them take horse dewormers. You get that, right?

Seeing a post like this makes it really apparent how naive you about this stuff. And you play this game, constantly. It's embarrassing. Get real.