RIP Humpty Hump

[lewdd]

https://www.punknews.org/article/74538/ ... assed-away

[SamDBL]

Found dead in Tampa, motherfucker. I hate when they don’t give cause of death. Usually means either aids or drugs. Imma go with drugs on this one since he was in a hotel room, even though he pretty much lived here.

I will give him props in that he actually had a degree in music, and knew how to play instruments. Unlike so many others in that god forsaken genre.

[jaybird]

Found dead in Tampa, motherfucker. I hate when they don’t give cause of death. Usually means either aids or drugs. Imma go with drugs on this one since he was in a hotel room, even though he pretty much lived here.

I will give him props in that he actually had a degree in music, and knew how to play instruments. Unlike so many others in that god forsaken genre.

Exactly my thoughts.

[target]

The bass on their biggest hit was infectious! This guy was a character, RIP

[patient_ot]

I will give him props in that he actually had a degree in music, and knew how to play instruments. Unlike so many others in that god forsaken genre.

Seems more than a little hypocritical to criticize a genre (assuming you mean hip hop) for a lack of musicianship when you have an entire sub-genre of rock 'n roll (punk and it's associated spinoffs) built around band members not being professional musicians and bashing out songs with three chords.

[SamDBL]

I will give him props in that he actually had a degree in music, and knew how to play instruments. Unlike so many others in that god forsaken genre.

Seems more than a little hypocritical to criticize a genre (assuming you mean hip hop) for a lack of musicianship when you have an entire sub-genre of rock 'n roll (punk and it's associated spinoffs) built around band members not being professional musicians and bashing out songs with three chords.

I fully admit that punk rock is a 'lowbrow' form of art. And at this point, I only marginally respect an hand full of musicians playing it as it was played at it's inception. Ie. While I 'respect', say, the Ramones.. I have zero respect for someone that plays in a band just like the Ramones that started 20 years after the Ramones. When I say respect, I'm speaking in terms of musicianship. Anyway, I would rate earlier hip hop near early punk, or blues, or a number of primitive, rudimentary genres. In that, at a certain point, there was something to it on a number of other levels.

For instance, before the digitization of music, these rapper dj types had to go through pretty tough lengths to get these loops. I mean, the record scratching thing was pretty ingenious. And I'd imagine learning how to do that well would take about the same amount of time it takes to learn the power chord shape and move it around on a guitar.

HOWEVER, with the digitization of music, editing beats and loops takes exactly zero skill. Zero. Nada. There are kindergarten art projects that take more time and effort than creating a beat and/or loop on a DAW with a grid, tempo, and sample library. On top of that, most of these brilliant artists don't even do that! A 'producer' is in charge. Because, apparently, most actual rappers are unable to figure out how to turn on a computer or cut and past audio samples. The rapper is simply in charge of writing completely unintelligible, non-sensical, repetitive lyrics that, again, most prepubescent kids with any knowledge of current street slang could whip up without breaking a sweat. While the 'smart' guy handles the completely elementary cutting and pasting. In fact, I'd submit that rap lyrics have always been the absolute weak point of the genre. I'd say the same about punk, for the most part. But to a lesser degree. At least critics never made fools of themselves by calling the lyrics of the Misfits or Poison Idea ‘Shakespearean’, thoughtful societal commentary or brilliant. However, they repeatedly do exactly that when talking about horseshit like EMINEN, Tupac and WAP. It’s fucking laughable and embarrassing.

And so, at this point, no. I will not grant that any rapper in the current mainstream lexicon... Drake, Cardi B, Kanye, etc... has even the musical talent of the Aids Brigade. Learning a power chord, how to hold a pick, how to tune a guitar and how change a string is infinitely more difficult than learning how to cut and paste on a DAW. And again, we are talking about 'artists' that can't even be bothered to figure out how to do *that*.

[patient_ot]

I fully admit that punk rock is a 'lowbrow' form of art. And at this point, I only marginally respect an hand full of musicians playing it as it was played at it's inception. Ie. While I 'respect', say, the Ramones.. I have zero respect for someone that plays in a band just like the Ramones that started 20 years after the Ramones. When I say respect, I'm speaking in terms of musicianship. Anyway, I would rate earlier hip hop near early punk, or blues, or a number of primitive, rudimentary genres. In that, at a certain point, there was something to it on a number of other levels.

For instance, before the digitization of music, these rapper dj types had to go through pretty tough lengths to get these loops. I mean, the record scratching thing was pretty ingenious. And I'd imagine learning how to do that well would take about the same amount of time it takes to learn the power chord shape and move it around on a guitar.

HOWEVER, with the digitization of music, editing beats and loops takes exactly zero skill. Zero. Nada. There are kindergarten art projects that take more time and effort than creating a beat and/or loop on a DAW with a grid, tempo, and sample library. On top of that, most of these brilliant artists don't even do that! A 'producer' is in charge. Because, apparently, most actual rappers are unable to figure out how to turn on a computer or cut and past audio samples. The rapper is simply in charge of writing completely unintelligible, non-sensical, repetitive lyrics that, again, most prepubescent kids with any knowledge of current street slang could whip up without breaking a sweat. While the 'smart' guy handles the completely elementary cutting and pasting. In fact, I'd submit that rap lyrics have always been the absolute weak point of the genre. I'd say the same about punk, for the most part. But to a lesser degree. At least critics never made fools of themselves by calling the lyrics of the Misfits or Poison Idea ‘Shakespearean’, thoughtful societal commentary or brilliant. However, they repeatedly do exactly that when talking about horseshit like EMINEN, Tupac and WAP. It’s fucking laughable and embarrassing.

And so, at this point, no. I will not grant that any rapper in the current mainstream lexicon... Drake, Cardi B, Kanye, etc... has even the musical talent of the Aids Brigade. Learning a power chord, how to hold a pick, how to tune a guitar and how change a string is infinitely more difficult than learning how to cut and paste on a DAW. And again, we are talking about 'artists' that can't even be bothered to figure out how to do *that*.

I think mainstream rap has regressed as well. However, I would not be dismissing the entire genre. I think it went downhill at the end of the 90s with the exception of the limited amount of underground/independent acts.

RE: rappers themselves, some mainstream acts do not even write their own lyrics either. They have "ghost writers" who do that for them. I believe Drake was called out for doing this a few times.

RE: DAW, it would depend on what you are trying to make. I have a friend that is a DJ and hip hop producer. Most of the stuff he does is heavily inspired by 80s and 90s hip hop, underground stuff, etc. because he is older and that is what he grew up on. At one point he made a "beat album" consisting of over 300 samples he made from scratching and sampling his record collection, which is something like 7,000-8,000 records. He worked on it for over a year and it was a lot more complicated than just cutting and pasting.

[SamDBL]

I fully admit that punk rock is a 'lowbrow' form of art. And at this point, I only marginally respect an hand full of musicians playing it as it was played at it's inception. Ie. While I 'respect', say, the Ramones.. I have zero respect for someone that plays in a band just like the Ramones that started 20 years after the Ramones. When I say respect, I'm speaking in terms of musicianship. Anyway, I would rate earlier hip hop near early punk, or blues, or a number of primitive, rudimentary genres. In that, at a certain point, there was something to it on a number of other levels.

For instance, before the digitization of music, these rapper dj types had to go through pretty tough lengths to get these loops. I mean, the record scratching thing was pretty ingenious. And I'd imagine learning how to do that well would take about the same amount of time it takes to learn the power chord shape and move it around on a guitar.

HOWEVER, with the digitization of music, editing beats and loops takes exactly zero skill. Zero. Nada. There are kindergarten art projects that take more time and effort than creating a beat and/or loop on a DAW with a grid, tempo, and sample library. On top of that, most of these brilliant artists don't even do that! A 'producer' is in charge. Because, apparently, most actual rappers are unable to figure out how to turn on a computer or cut and past audio samples. The rapper is simply in charge of writing completely unintelligible, non-sensical, repetitive lyrics that, again, most prepubescent kids with any knowledge of current street slang could whip up without breaking a sweat. While the 'smart' guy handles the completely elementary cutting and pasting. In fact, I'd submit that rap lyrics have always been the absolute weak point of the genre. I'd say the same about punk, for the most part. But to a lesser degree. At least critics never made fools of themselves by calling the lyrics of the Misfits or Poison Idea ‘Shakespearean’, thoughtful societal commentary or brilliant. However, they repeatedly do exactly that when talking about horseshit like EMINEN, Tupac and WAP. It’s fucking laughable and embarrassing.

And so, at this point, no. I will not grant that any rapper in the current mainstream lexicon... Drake, Cardi B, Kanye, etc... has even the musical talent of the Aids Brigade. Learning a power chord, how to hold a pick, how to tune a guitar and how change a string is infinitely more difficult than learning how to cut and paste on a DAW. And again, we are talking about 'artists' that can't even be bothered to figure out how to do *that*.

I think mainstream rap has regressed as well. However, I would not be dismissing the entire genre. I think it went downhill at the end of the 90s with the exception of the limited amount of underground/independent acts.

RE: rappers themselves, some mainstream acts do not even write their own lyrics either. They have "ghost writers" who do that for them. I believe Drake was called out for doing this a few times.

RE: DAW, it would depend on what you are trying to make. I have a friend that is a DJ and hip hop producer. Most of the stuff he does is heavily inspired by 80s and 90s hip hop, underground stuff, etc. because he is older and that is what he grew up on. At one point he made a "beat album" consisting of over 300 samples he made from scratching and sampling his record collection, which is something like 7,000-8,000 records. He worked on it for over a year and it was a lot more complicated than just cutting and pasting.

I’d agree that the 90s is the cutoff point for rap being worth a shit. And I’m speaking in generalities. Of course if your friend is influenced by the ‘good’ stuff and he is trying to incorporate those methods, then it would be more closely related to the earlier rap in terms of being artistic. But he would be an exception. And it would only prove the point even more, that older rap and the way it was done was objectively more deserving of accolades.

I have never been a fan of the genre. But I have thought a lot about it. And the analogy of rap against punk has definitely shaped the way I criticize it because I can see all of the parallels, despite the fact that they sound nothing alike. However, as the years go on and rap becomes a bigger and bigger monolithic presence in music, I hear such insanely overblown praise that it blows my mind. I finally had to do a deep dive about a month ago listening to all the current ‘geniuses’ to really hear if it was all as bad as My intuition led me to believe. It’s actually way worse. After all the hubbub about WAP, for instance, I sat and tried to listen with an open mind. It’s hard for me to fathom how terms like Shakespearean, thoughtful, culturally important, feminist, etc could be applied to that steaming pile by people that are in command of all of their higher faculties and without any serious head injuries. Not just because I thought it sucked on every single level. But because of how absolutely effortless it must’ve been to create, both lyrically and in terms of production, song writing and arranging. It’s trendy dog shit of the highest order and the hype is nauseating. I even listened to some interviews where she tied to explain the lyrics. Which was fucking hilarious listening to her try and articulate some deeper meaning to this idiotic rant. She failed, btw.

[patient_ot]

I’d agree that the 90s is the cutoff point for rap being worth a shit. And I’m speaking in generalities. Of course if your friend is influenced by the ‘good’ stuff and he is trying to incorporate those methods, then it would be more closely related to the earlier rap in terms of being artistic. But he would be an exception. And it would only prove the point even more, that older rap and the way it was done was objectively more deserving of accolades.

I have never been a fan of the genre. But I have thought a lot about it. And the analogy of rap against punk has definitely shaped the way I criticize it because I can see all of the parallels, despite the fact that they sound nothing alike. However, as the years go on and rap becomes a bigger and bigger monolithic presence in music, I hear such insanely overblown praise that it blows my mind. I finally had to do a deep dive about a month ago listening to all the current ‘geniuses’ to really hear if it was all as bad as My intuition led me to believe. It’s actually way worse. After all the hubbub about WAP, for instance, I sat and tried to listen with an open mind. It’s hard for me to fathom how terms like Shakespearean, thoughtful, culturally important, feminist, etc could be applied to that steaming pile by people that are in command of all of their higher faculties and without any serious head injuries. Not just because I thought it sucked on every single level. But because of how absolutely effortless it must’ve been to create, both lyrically and in terms of production, song writing and arranging. It’s trendy dog shit of the highest order and the hype is nauseating. I even listened to some interviews where she tied to explain the lyrics. Which was fucking hilarious listening to her try and articulate some deeper meaning to this idiotic rant. She failed, btw.

I don't think we should judge a genre too much but the lowest common denominator, top 40 flavor of the month/year. We're not looking at the legacy of punk/hc based on Sum41 or Blink182 or whatever. Rap/hip hop is the same way. When the mainstream got too watered down, the "real stuff" continued being made but went the underground/indie route. Besides the small indie labels there were/are large indie labels in hip hop also, like Stones Throw, Rhymesayers, Def Jux, etc. People that aren't into the music wouldn't know that though.

[SamDBL]

I’d agree that the 90s is the cutoff point for rap being worth a shit. And I’m speaking in generalities. Of course if your friend is influenced by the ‘good’ stuff and he is trying to incorporate those methods, then it would be more closely related to the earlier rap in terms of being artistic. But he would be an exception. And it would only prove the point even more, that older rap and the way it was done was objectively more deserving of accolades.

I have never been a fan of the genre. But I have thought a lot about it. And the analogy of rap against punk has definitely shaped the way I criticize it because I can see all of the parallels, despite the fact that they sound nothing alike. However, as the years go on and rap becomes a bigger and bigger monolithic presence in music, I hear such insanely overblown praise that it blows my mind. I finally had to do a deep dive about a month ago listening to all the current ‘geniuses’ to really hear if it was all as bad as My intuition led me to believe. It’s actually way worse. After all the hubbub about WAP, for instance, I sat and tried to listen with an open mind. It’s hard for me to fathom how terms like Shakespearean, thoughtful, culturally important, feminist, etc could be applied to that steaming pile by people that are in command of all of their higher faculties and without any serious head injuries. Not just because I thought it sucked on every single level. But because of how absolutely effortless it must’ve been to create, both lyrically and in terms of production, song writing and arranging. It’s trendy dog shit of the highest order and the hype is nauseating. I even listened to some interviews where she tied to explain the lyrics. Which was fucking hilarious listening to her try and articulate some deeper meaning to this idiotic rant. She failed, btw.

I don't think we should judge a genre too much but the lowest common denominator, top 40 flavor of the month/year. We're not looking at the legacy of punk/hc based on Sum41 or Blink182 or whatever. Rap/hip hop is the same way. When the mainstream got too watered down, the "real stuff" continued being made but went the underground/indie route. Besides the small indie labels there were/are large indie labels in hip hop also, like Stones Throw, Rhymesayers, Def Jux, etc. People that aren't into the music wouldn't know that though.

I still believe that most rap, even ‘underground/cool’ rap is being made with the use of digitized files on a quantized daw of some sort. Which is the dividing line between worthwhile and shitty, to me. I maintain that even the shittiest punk band made of players that can barely play requires more musical effort ability to even play together and follow your hands along in synch with each other than it does to map samples on a grid. The *only* exception being rap bands that used pain in the ass analog technology to make their music in the early 80s. If there are a few bands doing exactly that today, good for them. I’m sure they are the exception.

[jaybird]

At this point, I think most current rap/hip-hop is more a species of performance art/comedy than it is actual music... that's not to say it worthless across the board, though Cardi B. or 6ix9ine or Spottemgottem or whoever the latest mumbling-dipshit flavor du jour certainly is.

I do this this is pretty great.

[SamDBL]

At this point, I think most current rap/hip-hop is more a species of performance art/comedy than it is actual music... that's not to say it worthless across the board, though Cardi B. or 6ix9ine or Spottemgottem or whoever the latest mumbling-dipshit flavor du jour certainly is.

I do this this is pretty great.

Was it you that coined 'audio collage'? I think that's about right. Yes, if rap is good for anything, it's a laugh. I do giggle at lines from songs all the time. Even the Cardi B tune had a couple that I thought were kinda funny. "If you lick my ass, you a bottom feeder". Almost GG-esque.

[FormerLurker]

The only rap-hop artist I like is Clooner.

[jaybird]

At this point, I think most current rap/hip-hop is more a species of performance art/comedy than it is actual music... that's not to say it worthless across the board, though Cardi B. or 6ix9ine or Spottemgottem or whoever the latest mumbling-dipshit flavor du jour certainly is.

I do this this is pretty great.

Was it you that coined 'audio collage'? I think that's about right. Yes, if rap is good for anything, it's a laugh. I do giggle at lines from songs all the time. Even the Cardi B tune had a couple that I thought were kinda funny. "If you lick my ass, you a bottom feeder". Almost GG-esque.

Yeah, that sounds like something i might have said at some point... I really do think it's a new performance art form that grew out of music, sort of like how movies and film grew out of live theater, maybe.

[patient_ot]

Quantization in music has been around for a long time at this point. It is not limited to hip hop either. Many rock bands also use it, including very famous ones. Same deal with vocal pitch correction (I don't mean autotune), splicing takes whether they be recorded digitally or on tape, etc. - all nothing new.

Jay Dee liked to use samplers (including the famous SP-1200, which goes back to the late 80s) with the quantization turned off, which was part of his signature sound. Throughout the mid-90s and later, other people copied this.

One of my friends from college, who was a drummer and played in a band that was later signed to Touch and Go and Thrill Jockey, also liked to use a sampler to make electronic music. It was far more difficult than most people could imagine, so anyone thinking it's easy and the sampler does everything 100% for you is full of shit. My best guess is they've never used one extensively or seen one being used to do anything more than the most basic stuff.

[SamDBL]

Quantization in music has been around for a long time at this point. It is not limited to hip hop either. Many rock bands also use it, including very famous ones. Same deal with vocal pitch correction (I don't mean autotune), splicing takes whether they be recorded digitally or on tape, etc. - all nothing new.

Jay Dee liked to use samplers (including the famous SP-1200, which goes back to the late 80s) with the quantization turned off, which was part of his signature sound. Throughout the mid-90s and later, other people copied this.

One of my friends from college, who was a drummer and played in a band that was later signed to Touch and Go and Thrill Jockey, also liked to use a sampler to make electronic music. It was far more difficult than most people could imagine, so anyone thinking it's easy and the sampler does everything 100% for you is full of shit. My best guess is they've never used one extensively or seen one being used to do anything more than the most basic stuff.

Yes, and rock bands that use it extensively are almost as bad as rap bands. STILL, playing a guitar or drum or mandolin or whatever passage and then editing digitally is completely different than playing no instrument, using someone else's music passage or sampled drum beat, and editing it. There is literally no musicianship involved. I'm not slamming digital technology as being useful. But it can be overused, of course. By rock, country or any other genre. My point is, it's pretty much the sole component of hip hop music. Musicianship is not a part of the equation.

Zero musicianship = not music. You can call it something else or some other kind of art. But even the worst guitar player on his worst day is putting more effort and skill into learning and executing his craft than what is necessary to make the 'music' for any rap song made 100% through digital editing. Which is the vast bulk of them, today. Whereas I could see the argument of early 80's rap being a valid art form on equal footing with blues, rock, country.. I don't believe that argument holds any water in digital age hip hop. Objectively. Definitely. *slams gavel*

[matt]

Since it takes zero talent/skill, I want Sam to spend the ten minutes it takes to make a Top 10 hip hop hit.

[SamDBL]

Since it takes zero talent/skill, I want Sam to spend the ten minutes it takes to make a Top 10 hip hop hit.

Making a hit song is incredibly difficult. But not in terms of musical skill. Rather, because it requires things like large scale marketing, record label infrastructure, impeccable timing, established position, management, and not least of all a shit ton of luck. So no, I won't be writing any top 10 hits any time soon. But if putting a beat comparable to top 10 garbage together in, say under an hour, will put the issue to rest I might do it (when and if I have the time). If every single person on here swears that they will then publicly admit that modern rap is categorically shit non-music and I'm 100% correct. Also, everyone has to post videos of themselves trying to learn a new instrument with weekly progress reports. Those are my terms.

[matt]

LOL. A lot of modern mainstream pop hip hop is unbelievably stupid, but so is a lot of modern mainstream pop of any genre. I started listening to hip hop in junior high, right about the same time I started listening to punk. I bailed in the '90s, for the most part, because I couldn't deal with the mainstream stuff that took over. I discovered all the underground backpack rap in the 2000s and that woke my ears up to just how creative it could be. A couple of years ago, the boyfriend of one of my good friends and I were hanging out, talking about music. He's WAY into all things hip hop; underground, mainstream, whatever. I told him I couldn't deal with most of the contemporary stuff, and he gave me a list of bands and records to check out. I spent some serious time with a lot of it, and it finally clicked.

Most successful pop songs have that hook, and the hook obviously works in hip hop, but when the flow of the MC meshes with the beat in the right way, it's magic. The lyrics can be the dumbest thing ever, but sometimes you still can't help but groove. I think that takes the talent of someone who can hear that in their head and then get it recorded. I watched some reality show on Netflix a while back that was like American Idol for rappers. These folks had been practicing their craft for YEARS, and so much of it was just bad bad bad. I don't think it's easy, and I absolutely think it takes skill and talent. Sam, I have no doubt you could put together a hip hop song that was better than the average person, but I'm also pretty confident that it would sound like someone who has no idea what they're doing. I won't agree to your terms, but I'd still love to hear you put something together, beats AND rhymes... just for fun.

Check this out. My son sent me this link years ago, and I've always appreciated the visual representation of different MCs' flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU

[SamDBL]

LOL. A lot of modern mainstream pop hip hop is unbelievably stupid, but so is a lot of modern mainstream pop of any genre. I started listening to hip hop in junior high, right about the same time I started listening to punk. I bailed in the '90s, for the most part, because I couldn't deal with the mainstream stuff that took over. I discovered all the underground backpack rap in the 2000s and that woke my ears up to just how creative it could be. A couple of years ago, the boyfriend of one of my good friends and I were hanging out, talking about music. He's WAY into all things hip hop; underground, mainstream, whatever. I told him I couldn't deal with most of the contemporary stuff, and he gave me a list of bands and records to check out. I spent some serious time with a lot of it, and it finally clicked.

Most successful pop songs have that hook, and the hook obviously works in hip hop, but when the flow of the MC meshes with the beat in the right way, it's magic. The lyrics can be the dumbest thing ever, but sometimes you still can't help but groove. I think that takes the talent of someone who can hear that in their head and then get it recorded. I watched some reality show on Netflix a while back that was like American Idol for rappers. These folks had been practicing their craft for YEARS, and so much of it was just bad bad bad. I don't think it's easy, and I absolutely think it takes skill and talent. Sam, I have no doubt you could put together a hip hop song that was better than the average person, but I'm also pretty confident that it would sound like someone who has no idea what they're doing. I won't agree to your terms, but I'd still love to hear you put something together, beats AND rhymes... just for fun.

Check this out. My son sent me this link years ago, and I've always appreciated the visual representation of different MCs' flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWveXdj6oZU

Top 10 Pop music is not off the hook, either. But we are all aware of it, and that's a separate issue. I think you maybe missed my point a little bit.

I'm not saying you can't like rap music. I'm not saying that one person can't be 'better' or more creative at cutting and pasting than another. I'm saying that it's something different than music, which requires musicians and some degree of discipline to achieve. I'm saying that there is no musical talent in the bulk of rap not because I don't dig rap, personally. But because, literally, there is no musical skill required to make it. To me, a genre which has been comprised almost entirely of music taken from previous recordings is already on very shakey ground. But these days, it's entirely indefensible.

So, in essence, if I were to make a beat, sure... you could say that to your seasoned ears it's not up to par with Dr. Dre, or whatever. I'd probably disagree, but that's subjective. What's *not* subjective is that I would have made something comparable that many people, in a blind listening test, could probably not tell from a solo'd up group of beats which is and isn't made by a high level, professional rap producer. Not because I am awesome. But because the procedure is about as complicated as drawing a stick figure. Compare that with handing someone who has never touched an instrument before, handing them a guitar, and seeing what they could come up with in the same amount of time with no assistance.

Here are some Drake lyrics I found. Are you saying I'm not up the challenge of writing something as 'profound' as this?


Here we are, livin like we do
i been livin like a ghost
coast to coast
shawty shawty
come come
Shawty shawt
get some
nigga on a trip
imma give another tip
click click nigga
see my clip
bum ass bitch
niggas ridin my dick

[captain2man]

Since it takes zero talent/skill, I want Sam to spend the ten minutes it takes to make a Top 10 hip hop hit.

Making a hit song is incredibly difficult. But not in terms of musical skill. Rather, because it requires things like large scale marketing, record label infrastructure, impeccable timing, established position, management, and not least of all a shit ton of luck. So no, I won't be writing any top 10 hits any time soon. But if putting a beat comparable to top 10 garbage together in, say under an hour, will put the issue to rest I might do it (when and if I have the time). If every single person on here swears that they will then publicly admit that modern rap is categorically shit non-music and I'm 100% correct. Also, everyone has to post videos of themselves trying to learn a new instrument with weekly progress reports. Those are my terms.

I have seriously always wanted to learn the bassoon. I don't know why....I just always have. The idea of anyone watching me try to learn the bassoon is so incredibly funny to me that this might be worth it.

[matt]

Top 10 Pop music is not off the hook, either. But we are all aware of it, and that's a separate issue. I think you maybe missed my point a little bit.

I'm not saying you can't like rap music. I'm not saying that one person can't be 'better' or more creative at cutting and pasting than another. I'm saying that it's something different than music, which requires musicians and some degree of discipline to achieve. I'm saying that there is no musical talent in the bulk of rap not because I don't dig rap, personally. But because, literally, there is no musical skill required to make it. To me, a genre which has been comprised almost entirely of music taken from previous recordings is already on very shakey ground. But these days, it's entirely indefensible.

So, in essence, if I were to make a beat, sure... you could say that to your seasoned ears it's not up to par with Dr. Dre, or whatever. I'd probably disagree, but that's subjective. What's *not* subjective is that I would have made something comparable that many people, in a blind listening test, could probably not tell from a solo'd up group of beats which is and isn't made by a high level, professional rap producer. Not because I am awesome. But because the procedure is about as complicated as drawing a stick figure. Compare that with handing someone who has never touched an instrument before, handing them a guitar, and seeing what they could come up with in the same amount of time with no assistance.

Here are some Drake lyrics I found. Are you saying I'm not up the challenge of writing something as 'profound' as this?


Here we are, livin like we do
i been livin like a ghost
coast to coast
shawty shawty
come come
come come
get some
nigga on a trip
imma give another tip
click click nigga
see my clip
bum ass bitch
nigga suck my dick

I don't think I missed your point. I don't think making a good beat is as easy as drawing a stick figure, otherwise I think you'd show me how easy it is. And it's more than just the beat and the lyrics; it's the whole thing. Just as someone could listen to a sampling of different black metal bands and think that it's all noise and growling and garbage and "anyone could do that..." where you, with your seasoned ears, could point out a hundred differences and varying levels of skill involved. That's fine and that's normal and I just think you're painting with too broad of a brush.

The lyrics you posted are dumb, no doubt. But Drake's a great rapper. If you or I rapped those same lyrics over the same beat, Drake would sound better, by a long shot. Because he's a talented rapper and is skilled. (As an aside, my best friend is a set designer and did Drake's set a few years back and went on a world tour with him, so I heard a lot about the guy from him.)

Anyway, here are some Aesop Rock lyrics. I love how he paints pictures with words. I couldn't do what he does.

"I used to hang around with rappers at the root of the scene
It meant a lot to feel the fugitive community breathe
Maybe to sentimentalize is to be truly naive
I know some shit about your heroes that you wouldn't believe
I think we're all a bunch of weirdos on a quest to belong
This song's our echolocation up in impregnable fog
That's why it's odd to see a pile of imperfections and flaws
Ascend a pedestal to patronize the rest of the cogs
In a mess of obnoxious fantasy, posturing and pageantry
I ain't even mad, I'm impressed, shit it's baffling
God almighty, chop an ivory tower to piano keys
Play your own dirge on the way to surfing maggot beach
You fuckin' dorks ain't a source of the art
You can't be cooler than the corners
Where you source all your parts
The poker-faced, all it takes a couple sordid remarks
We let the manticore out, We make the sorcery bark.

Life is so unfair, party over here, I'll be over there"

[seanTM]

I’m honestly surprised it took that long for us to see the N word in this thread.

[lewdd]

Amazing that sTM came out of the woodwork.

[matt]

I’m honestly surprised it took that long for us to see the N word in this thread.

Toto, we're not on the Dorkboard anymore...

[SamDBL]

Well, I wrote those god damn shitty rap lyrics. I did it in under 60 seconds. And while you agreed that they were some of Drake's lesser work, you also did not question that they were written by Drake. Understandably, since they are indistinguishable from his moronic drivel. Thus, the lyrical portion of this challenge has been accepted and completed with one clear victor.





\case closed

[SamDBL]

Whenever I *do* get around to making a rap beat in under an hour (most of that time will be spent waiting on my computer to boot up, opening my daw, and figuring out where the fuck the stock sample library is buried) I'll be posting it as a blind test again instrumental mixes of various rap tunes from known artists (but hopefully obscure enough tracks that you won't recognize and can't immediately look up). And we will put this shit to bed, once and for all.

[jaybird]

[matt]

Well done, Sam!

[seanTM]

I think we’ve all learned a valuable lesson here...

[matt]

I think we’ve all learned a valuable lesson here...

Never get involved in a land war in Asia?

[seanTM]

I think we’ve all learned a valuable lesson here...

Never get involved in a land war in Asia?

Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!

[SamDBL]

I’m honestly surprised it took that long for us to see the N word in this thread.

Seriously, though... does anyone see how fucking weird it is that this word, which is so fraught and radioactive that even uttering unrelated words that *sound* like it (niggardly) could be enough to get someone fired, is also completely mainstream and probably in the majority of top 10 songs, among other things (movies, sports events, comedy routines, anything else rap culture has any crossover with)? Like, young kids listen to an endless stream of this word being marketed directly at them 24/7. And they are being told that the people ‘singing’ this word to them are brilliant artists, or whatever. While simultaneously being taught that it’s the worst word in the history of civilization and they can never say it, even as a quote. It’s kind of a mind blowing social phenomena, imo.

It’s almost analogous to if ‘seig heil’ was currently in vogue in all areas of modern day German pop culture. Hard to imagine.

[JGJR]

I’m honestly surprised it took that long for us to see the N word in this thread.

Seriously, though... does anyone see how fucking weird it is that this word, which is so fraught and radioactive that even uttering unrelated words that *sound* like it (niggardly) could be enough to get someone fired, is also completely mainstream and probably in the majority of top 10 songs, among other things (movies, sports events, comedy routines, anything else rap culture has any crossover with)? Like, young kids listen to an endless stream of this word being marketed directly at them 24/7. And they are being told that the people ‘singing’ this word to them are brilliant artists, or whatever. While simultaneously being taught that it’s the worst word in the history of civilization and they can never say it, even as a quote. It’s kind of a mind blowing social phenomena, imo.

It’s almost analogous to if ‘seig heil’ was currently in vogue in all areas of modern day German pop culture. Hard to imagine.

I didn't wanna do this, but fuck it. Context is everything, is it not?

[SamDBL]

I’m honestly surprised it took that long for us to see the N word in this thread.

Seriously, though... does anyone see how fucking weird it is that this word, which is so fraught and radioactive that even uttering unrelated words that *sound* like it (niggardly) could be enough to get someone fired, is also completely mainstream and probably in the majority of top 10 songs, among other things (movies, sports events, comedy routines, anything else rap culture has any crossover with)? Like, young kids listen to an endless stream of this word being marketed directly at them 24/7. And they are being told that the people ‘singing’ this word to them are brilliant artists, or whatever. While simultaneously being taught that it’s the worst word in the history of civilization and they can never say it, even as a quote. It’s kind of a mind blowing social phenomena, imo.

It’s almost analogous to if ‘seig heil’ was currently in vogue in all areas of modern day German pop culture. Hard to imagine.

I didn't wanna do this, but fuck it. Context is everything, is it not?

That should 100% be the criteria. But it's not. I believe the current idea is 'impact over intent' when it comes to policing offensive language. Hence, there is an entire wikipedia page dedicated to people that have gotten fired for using the word niggardly. And people getting publically shamed (and worse) for getting caught on camera singing along to these stupid yet completely mainstream songs. There is a disconnect, there.

[xxxMidgexxx]

Rap is a musical scourge. Even worse than country. Well....maybe its a tie.

[seanTM]

Hoo fuckin’ boy™️

[SamDBL]

Hoo fuckin’ boy™️

[SamDBL]

I’m waiting for someone to bring up the fact that horror movies portray murders, and we are not allowed to murder people. Go ahead... make my fuckin day.

[FormerLurker]

I’m waiting for someone to bring up the fact that horror movies portray murders, and we are not allowed to murder people. Go ahead... make my fuckin day.

[xxxMidgexxx]

I’m waiting for someone to bring up the fact that horror movies portray murders, and we are not allowed to murder people. Go ahead... make my fuckin day.

Well they do. Horror films need to be banned. Kids see that shit on one of those dopey streaming services, chainsaws, knives, etc...and sooner or later they're running around thinking they're the next Bruce Lee and want to kill people. How many more people have to die before this shit stops?

[SamDBL]

I’m waiting for someone to bring up the fact that horror movies portray murders, and we are not allowed to murder people. Go ahead... make my fuckin day.

Well they do. Horror films need to be banned. Kids see that shit on one of those dopey streaming services, chainsaws, knives, etc...and sooner or later they're running around thinking they're the next Bruce Lee and want to kill people. How many more people have to die before this shit stops?