Let's talk about THE DOUGHBOYS

[kel]

Doughboys random recollections:

I saw the Doughboys for the first time on that FinALL / MIA / Doughboys tour (June 12, 1987) at an "all-ages nightclub" in Tampa (Chances). I remember being amused at the flying wall of HAIR from the headbanging hairfarmers. In an age and culture of skinhead and "hard" shorthaird bands, these adorable muppets bouncing around was refreshingly cool!



There was a lot of talent in that band. It didn't show through as much on the early work, but by Happy Accidents there was some pretty darn talented and unique music getting laid down. As a guitarist, I find that when I listen to someone else's music and have no idea what the chords or progressions are, that makes for interesting music. Chugging along D-G-A chords is great when you want to listen to the Ramones, but when you hear that dual-attack, sitar-like weirdness, winding melodies, legit solos, and interchange between twin guitars that they did and realize that they're putting that stuff out while also bouncing around like ping-pong balls all over the stage... fun!

I think I only saw them a few times after that, until they played at Gillman when they broke up on your lawn
(Yep. Samiam lyrics / namecheck! )
("Remember when the doughboys played
At Gillman's and they broke up on your lawn?")
A freaking amazing song in it's own right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZ8tpu_VCQ


As a weird sidenote, I was hanging out with the guys after a show somewhere... we were all sitting in their van... or someone's van... and John was rolling a joint. He politely offered me a drag, but I don't smoke the sensimilla. He was untangling his dreads, and broke an errant one off and wordlessly handed it to me. Not sure, entirely, what I should do with this offering (Say "Ick" and delouse? Start a shrine??) I stuffed it in a jacket pocket. Later, at home, I had a stuffed animal toy cow on a shelf, and I walked up, threaded the 7" dread into it's horns, and there it lived for decades afterwards, my dreadlocked cow. Decades later, my child asked me about Micro The Cow's weird hair, and I fished up a Doughboys video on YouTube, and turned the kids onto that Canadian music. It was about a 80/20 grossed out-to-impressed ratio there, IIRC.


I'm a sucker for pop covers played by punk bands, and Doughboys had the harmonies and chops to put things together. In Tiffany's heyday, doing "I think we're alone now" was better than the original Tommy James) or the mall queen's 80's take.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fldwi2lN8X0 forward to 8:12 ) They seemed to have a new cover every year/tour. The Pere Ubu Final Solution cover didn't mean much to me, but I still appreciate it. One year they did "Real, Real, Real" by... whotheheckwasthat... Then Talking Heads on the last reunion.


There has been a mess of Doughboys live concert footage show up on YouTube in the past three years for some reason, a lot of footage that wasn't there ten years ago. I guess people must be cleaning out their VCR tape collections... Unfortunately, the clips that were posted of their reunion shows with Foo Fighters from a few years back got deleted. Which is sad, because those shows were in recent higher definition and good sound. Reference the above covers: They covered a Talking Heads song and really rocked it. There was footage with better, undistorted sound filmed at the big Foo concert, but it's now-deleted, but there's at least one clip from the secret show at the Bovine Club warmup and aftershow somewhere. At least it exists in any form:

(Cummins: "I hope I don't see this on YouTube...") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnTe1BsVyfU

Bonus footage of Brock making a guest appearance at the secret show! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSss3zJGK7I

[xxxMidgexxx]

The ALL show you're talking about where Doughboys blew them away was most likely with Dave.

No, it was definitely Dave singing. The second time I saw them it was definitely Dave singing.

WELL ALRIGHT THEN! Geez.

[WrEtcH]

True confessions time. I saw ALL a total of four times. Twice with Smalley. I'm not sure who I saw sing the other two times. I don;t remember the year for either show, but once was during the original run at the Cat's Cradle in NC. The other was the reunion show in San Diego where I met WrEtCH, sean and some other ALL/Dork board folks.

In short, I don't know the difference between Scott-ALL and Chad-ALL.

Fun times in San Diego!

LOVE Home Again and Crush when they went Mega City 4

[jaybird]

Doughboys random recollections:

I saw the Doughboys for the first time on that FinALL / MIA / Doughboys tour (June 12, 1987) at an "all-ages nightclub" in Tampa (Chances). I remember being amused at the flying wall of HAIR from the headbanging hairfarmers. In an age and culture of skinhead and "hard" shorthaird bands, these adorable muppets bouncing around was refreshingly cool!



There was a lot of talent in that band. It didn't show through as much on the early work, but by Happy Accidents there was some pretty darn talented and unique music getting laid down. As a guitarist, I find that when I listen to someone else's music and have no idea what the chords or progressions are, that makes for interesting music. Chugging along D-G-A chords is great when you want to listen to the Ramones, but when you hear that dual-attack, sitar-like weirdness, winding melodies, legit solos, and interchange between twin guitars that they did and realize that they're putting that stuff out while also bouncing around like ping-pong balls all over the stage... fun!

I think I only saw them a few times after that, until they played at Gillman when they broke up on your lawn
(Yep. Samiam lyrics / namecheck! )
("Remember when the doughboys played
At Gillman's and they broke up on your lawn?")
A freaking amazing song in it's own right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZ8tpu_VCQ


As a weird sidenote, I was hanging out with the guys after a show somewhere... we were all sitting in their van... or someone's van... and John was rolling a joint. He politely offered me a drag, but I don't smoke the sensimilla. He was untangling his dreads, and broke an errant one off and wordlessly handed it to me. Not sure, entirely, what I should do with this offering (Say "Ick" and delouse? Start a shrine??) I stuffed it in a jacket pocket. Later, at home, I had a stuffed animal toy cow on a shelf, and I walked up, threaded the 7" dread into it's horns, and there it lived for decades afterwards, my dreadlocked cow. Decades later, my child asked me about Micro The Cow's weird hair, and I fished up a Doughboys video on YouTube, and turned the kids onto that Canadian music. It was about a 80/20 grossed out-to-impressed ratio there, IIRC.


I'm a sucker for pop covers played by punk bands, and Doughboys had the harmonies and chops to put things together. In Tiffany's heyday, doing "I think we're alone now" was better than the original Tommy James) or the mall queen's 80's take.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fldwi2lN8X0 forward to 8:12 ) They seemed to have a new cover every year/tour. The Pere Ubu Final Solution cover didn't mean much to me, but I still appreciate it. One year they did "Real, Real, Real" by... whotheheckwasthat... Then Talking Heads on the last reunion.


There has been a mess of Doughboys live concert footage show up on YouTube in the past three years for some reason, a lot of footage that wasn't there ten years ago. I guess people must be cleaning out their VCR tape collections... Unfortunately, the clips that were posted of their reunion shows with Foo Fighters from a few years back got deleted. Which is sad, because those shows were in recent higher definition and good sound. Reference the above covers: They covered a Talking Heads song and really rocked it. There was footage with better, undistorted sound filmed at the big Foo concert, but it's now-deleted, but there's at least one clip from the secret show at the Bovine Club warmup and aftershow somewhere. At least it exists in any form:

(Cummins: "I hope I don't see this on YouTube...") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnTe1BsVyfU

Bonus footage of Brock making a guest appearance at the secret show! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSss3zJGK7I

What a great post... I have many similar memories and experiences with them... The first time i saw them was also on that '87 tour with Descendents and M.I.A., and I definitely remember them doing the Tiffany cover. when they toured with ALL the following year.. A friend of mine has a pretty good live bootleg from that period where they do that tune...


My own "Kastner moment" story:


I saw them in '89 in Ann Arbor for the Home Again tour... was a Tuesday night, early December... maybe a dozen people there, including the local opener band and the bar staff.. they were great, but by the end of the set they just started fucking around, having people shout out requests & playing half-assed covers... "Love Gun" by KISS, ""My Girl" by the Temptations (they changed the lyrics to "Skippy" for Skippy Smooth the Roadie who used to work for al those late 80s pop-punk bands)..."Stranglehold" by Ted Nugent, because Michigan, etc.,... and then they start playing "Sweet Home Alabama"... I'm standing right up front, air-guitaring along, Kastner looks at me, shrugs, takes off his guitar and hands it to me to play rhythm while he wanders around the bar singing to the few other people standing around... he wore his guitar to low it was almost at my knees, and I had to sort of crouch down all crab-core style to play along, lol



Actually got to open for them with my old band the following year when they came through Detroit with Jawbox:



And those are my Doughboys/Kastner stories

[JGJR]

. I remember being so disappointed with HOME AGAIN after hearing those songs live some many times, but I've come to love it. I think HAPPY ACCIDENTS might be their best.

Funny, I actually have Happy Accident on the turntable as I type... I have my issues with the quality of the recording/mix on Home Again, but overall, I probably prefer it to the heavy, reverb-drenched sound of the subsequent records... that's mostly what i'm referring to with my original comment about them drifting too far into "shoe-gaze-y" territory on the later albums.

I've mentioned it before, but I do think the best song they ever wrote was on their last album, and the one that Grohl shamelessly ripped off for "Monkey Wrench"... probably their best-sounding album too, getting back to straight rock and roll guitar sound.

Great song; thanks for posting. I'd never heard that one before nor have I really listened to any of their albums, truthfully, but this thread makes me want to change that.

[JGJR]

2013 was 8 years ago... that's like a century ago in woke-years. If she (Patti) was up for a similar award today, I think it's very likely that she would find current progressive audiences not nearly as forgiving or capable of interpreting context or nuance.

That's debatable. She's Patti freakin' Smith. Perhaps a small, fanatic faction of woke America would object, but I'd wager that most would find a way to sweep this lyric under the rug. After all, she argued the meaning of the song back then as well. Since then, I don't think she's done anything else worth controversy.

Thank you for articulating what I wanted to say yesterday in response to what jaybird wrote above, but couldn't find a way of putting into words. Well put, Midge. To paraphrase Ferris Bueller, she could be a fascist anarchist, but she recorded Horses, Radio Ethiopia, Easter, and Wave (and "Piss Factory"), so I don't really give a shit.

[JGJR]

One year they did "Real, Real, Real" by... whotheheckwasthat...

Jesus Jones! I hadn't thought about that song in a LONG time until now. I had and really liked their 1st album Liquidizer back in 1990. SBK's Brit-pop act a little before Blur. Also, when did the Doughboys reunite? And I really liked the story about the dreadlocked cow. Fun!

[jaybird]

2013 was 8 years ago... that's like a century ago in woke-years. If she (Patti) was up for a similar award today, I think it's very likely that she would find current progressive audiences not nearly as forgiving or capable of interpreting context or nuance.

That's debatable. She's Patti freakin' Smith. Perhaps a small, fanatic faction of woke America would object, but I'd wager that most would find a way to sweep this lyric under the rug. After all, she argued the meaning of the song back then as well. Since then, I don't think she's done anything else worth controversy.

Thank you for articulating what I wanted to say yesterday in response to what jaybird wrote above, but couldn't find a way of putting into words. Well put, Midge. To paraphrase Ferris Bueller, she could be a fascist anarchist, but she recorded Horses, Radio Ethiopia, Easter, and Wave (and "Piss Factory"), so I don't really give a shit.

Yeah, I'm definitely not one to start tossing out records over stuff like this where the word is used in an obviously anti-racist context.... but I also think that the real hardcore left anti-racist/BLM/identity politics faction of the progressive movement is very quickly moving in the direction of zero-tolerance for any use of the word, no matter intent or context or how long ago it was, etc. For that crowd, the fact that Patti Smith felt free to use that word in an anti-racist song nearly 40+ years ago is just one more piece evidence in an endlessly growing list of examples of how white-supremacy and racist assumptions are deeply and hopelessly embedded in American culture, and that need to be eradicated once and for all.

[scannest]

Kastner has said that the dreadlocks were the only thing he could think to do to make his very curly hair "punk."
I deeply regret not heading north to see those reunion shows. I just assumed there would be at least a few in the states.
He is apparently working on new Asexuals songs, but no talk of the anything new on the Doughboys front.

[SamDBL]

2013 was 8 years ago... that's like a century ago in woke-years. If she (Patti) was up for a similar award today, I think it's very likely that she would find current progressive audiences not nearly as forgiving or capable of interpreting context or nuance.

That's debatable. She's Patti freakin' Smith. Perhaps a small, fanatic faction of woke America would object, but I'd wager that most would find a way to sweep this lyric under the rug. After all, she argued the meaning of the song back then as well. Since then, I don't think she's done anything else worth controversy.

Thank you for articulating what I wanted to say yesterday in response to what jaybird wrote above, but couldn't find a way of putting into words. Well put, Midge. To paraphrase Ferris Bueller, she could be a fascist anarchist, but she recorded Horses, Radio Ethiopia, Easter, and Wave (and "Piss Factory"), so I don't really give a shit.

Yeah, I'm definitely not one to start tossing out records over stuff like this where the word is used in an obviously anti-racist context.... but I also think that the real hardcore left anti-racist/BLM/identity politics faction of the progressive movement is very quickly moving in the direction of zero-tolerance for any use of the word, no matter intent or context or how long ago it was, etc. For that crowd, the fact that Patti Smith felt free to use that word in an anti-racist song nearly 40+ years ago is just one more piece evidence in an endlessly growing list of examples of how white-supremacy and racist assumptions are deeply and hopelessly embedded in American culture, and that need to be eradicated once and for all.

This stuff seems to have no rhyme or reason. So hard to predict what will magically come up on the woke’s radar. Sometimes the reason is way obvious (politically driven cancellation). Sometimes it just seems random. Like a salon opinion writer is just digging through obscure old shit to take out of context as fodder on his next ‘How _______ from 30 years ago show us that trans racial phobia is nothing new’ piece. Just ruinin’ to ruin. And many times it’s people that were getting awards for their progressiveness just five minutes ago. So it’s really hard to say who will win the lottery, next. I’m sure a lot of celebs are sweating it. Watching the recent public immolation of Sharon Osborne and Chris whatever-his-name-is out of the blue for saying waaaaaaay less than the N-word has been a reminder of the randomness of all this.

[JGJR]

Watching the recent public immolation of Sharon Osborne and Chris whatever-his-name-is out of the blue for saying waaaaaaay less than the N-word has been a reminder of the randomness of all this.

I'm not a fan of Sharon for all sorts of reasons, but what exactly are you referring to? The Piers Morgan thing? Sorry (not sorry), but they're both idiots.

[SamDBL]

Watching the recent public immolation of Sharon Osborne and Chris whatever-his-name-is out of the blue for saying waaaaaaay less than the N-word has been a reminder of the randomness of all this.

I'm not a fan of Sharon for all sorts of reasons, but what exactly are you referring to? The Piers Morgan thing? Sorry (not sorry), but they're both idiots.

I haven’t completely researched. But from what I gather, piers pitched a fit about that nauseating Oprah interview and got publicly roasted. Sharon Osborne said she supports him. And now she is being crucified as racist, has made a shit ton of public apologies for absolutely nothing, and her show has been taken off air. I don’t care how dumb you think they are. This is a completely idiotic, made up controversy. Also, the host of the bachelor... some contestant got caught having attended an antebellum themed frat party in college. She was getting publicly eviscerated. When asked in an interview if he thought she was being treated too harshly, his answer was ‘I don’t know. Maybe’. So now *he* is branded as tangentially racist, and has been removed from his show. To prove the point, this is a guy that has totally pushed all the left wing speaking points on his show for over a decade, now.
I don’t care for these actors at all. I’m just sayin, the bachelor dude carried the sjw water for years. Sharon Osborne is no stranger to that on the Talk, either. Yet they found themselves in the crosshairs of the woke mob for, literally, no good reason. And they are both going to get their asses torched because of it. So no, patti smith and Elvis Costello are not immune from this for writing lyrics with the n word in them 30 years ago. It’s just a matter of them being so far out of the public limelight, at the moment,

[jaybird]

Watching the recent public immolation of Sharon Osborne and Chris whatever-his-name-is out of the blue for saying waaaaaaay less than the N-word has been a reminder of the randomness of all this.

I'm not a fan of Sharon for all sorts of reasons, but what exactly are you referring to? The Piers Morgan thing? Sorry (not sorry), but they're both idiots.

I haven’t completely researched. But from what I gather, piers pitched a fit about that nauseating Oprah interview and got publicly roasted. Sharon Osborne said she supports him. And now she is being crucified as racist, has made a shit ton of public apologies for absolutely nothing, and her show has been taken off air. I don’t care how dumb you think they are. This is a completely idiotic, made up controversy. Also, the host of the bachelor... some contestant got caught having attended an antebellum themed frat party in college. She was getting publicly eviscerated. When asked in an interview if he thought she was being treated too harshly, his answer was ‘I don’t know. Maybe’. So now *he* is branded as tangentially racist, and has been removed from his show. To prove the point, this is a guy that has totally pushed all the left wing speaking points on his show for over a decade, now.
I don’t care for these actors at all. I’m just sayin, the bachelor dude carried the sjw water for years. Sharon Osborne is no stranger to that on the Talk, either. Yet they found themselves in the crosshairs of the woke mob for, literally, no good reason. And they are both going to get their asses torched because of it. So no, patti smith and Elvis Costello are not immune from this for writing lyrics with the n word in them 30 years ago. It’s just a matter of them being so far out of the public limelight, at the moment,

[jaybird]

Caveat: Sharon Osbourne has also been accused of using racial slurs/insults against other celebrities, so her case is not really the best example, but the Bachelor dude being kicked off the show for saying maybe the dumb chick who went to an antebellum party might not necessarily be a racist is absolutely stupid. So the larger point still stands, I think... the woke mob isn't always completely thorough or the most efficient in deciding who is in the crosshairs this week, and it often depends on whether the accused are making a lot of noise in the public eye at the moment, but once they decide on a target, they're like a pack of pitbulls on a toddler.

[FormerLurker]

Caveat: Sharon Osbourne has also been accused of using racial slurs/insults against other celebrities, so her case is not really the best example, but the Bachelor dude being kicked off the show for saying maybe the dumb chick who went to an antebellum party might not necessarily be a racist is absolutely stupid. So the larger point still stands, I think... the woke mob isn't always completely thorough or the most efficient in deciding who is in the crosshairs this week, and it often depends on whether the accused are making a lot of noise in the public eye at the moment, but once they decide on a target, they're like a pack of pitbulls on a toddler.

[jaybird]

Anyway, I'd really rather talk more about cool old Doughboys stories and such. I'm sorry I brought the topic up about Brock's use of the n-word and his associated failure to consider how the acceptability or not of it's use in ant-racist songs might radically change 30 years in the future.

[jaybird]

Caveat: Sharon Osbourne has also been accused of using racial slurs/insults against other celebrities, so her case is not really the best example, but the Bachelor dude being kicked off the show for saying maybe the dumb chick who went to an antebellum party might not necessarily be a racist is absolutely stupid. So the larger point still stands, I think... the woke mob isn't always completely thorough or the most efficient in deciding who is in the crosshairs this week, and it often depends on whether the accused are making a lot of noise in the public eye at the moment, but once they decide on a target, they're like a pack of pitbulls on a toddler.

That was also probably massively insensitive of me.

[SamDBL]

Well I find this revelation both disturbing and intolerable. And further proof of systemic privilege.

[Neal]

someone just posted 4 clips of their last recorded stuff (i think) that never got released. maybe it was up on their myspace page at some time. it sounds so good. wish it got a proper release.

[scannest]

someone just posted 4 clips of their last recorded stuff (i think) that never got released. maybe it was up on their myspace page at some time. it sounds so good. wish it got a proper release.

Not sharing a link is just bad internet etiquette.

[jaybird]

Like 30 second +/- clips.... I'm guessing this is from when Wiz was in the band? Sounds pretty good, would be cool if it ever gets an official release:

shttps://web.archive.org/web/1997063000 ... xplode.wav

https://web.archive.org/web/19970630001 ... trange.wav

https://web.archive.org/web/19970630001 ... romise.wav

https://web.archive.org/web/19970630002 ... /slide.wav

[Knutsen]

A Doughboys show had more legwork and jumping than a match of the national German Soccer team at that time.

[Crazy Old Man]

Wish I never heard those samples. Now I want to hear the full versions! I'm so OCD, I can't sleep at night knowing there's recorded but unheard songs floating around by some of my favorite bands (I don't sleep well).

I'm scanning this thread...did someone mention Kastner is doing some kind of Asexuals reunion? In what shape and form? I need deets!

[jaybird]

Wish I never heard those samples. Now I want to hear the full versions! I'm so OCD, I can't sleep at night knowing there's recorded but unheard songs floating around by some of my favorite bands (I don't sleep well).

I'm scanning this thread...did someone mention Kastner is doing some kind of Asexuals reunion? In what shape and form? I need deets!

Kastner and the other dudes did a Asexuals reunion set at PRB in Las Vegas a few years back... and I know that Kastner is currently working on an Asexuals anthology/box-set sort of thing, but I don't think there are any other tour/reunion plans in the works subsequent to that project... or yet, anyway.

[jaybird]

Great interview with John on the Turned out a Punk podcast... lotsa great stories about the 80s Detroit scene and the ol' GRAYSTONE:

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/e ... yTs938gSJ8

[matt]

"New" Doughboys shirt available from Bifocal.

https://bifocalmedia.com/product/doughboys-2/

[scannest]

"New" Doughboys shirt available from Bifocal.

https://bifocalmedia.com/product/doughboys-2/

Thanks, Matt. Been too long since I've had a Doughboys t-shirt in rotation.

[matt]

Thanks, Matt. Been too long since I've had a Doughboys t-shirt in rotation.

And I know you're always in dire need of new t-shirts!

[FlexMyHead]

I saw Doughboys once in Karlsruhe, Germany in '89 or '90. Oddly enough, Bitch Magnet opened for them (who also put on a great set, but totally different vibe obviously). It was their Happy Accident tour/line up and they were bouncy/fun and put on a great set. I think the venue was underground, like actually below the earth. Unfortunately my flash wasn't working so all my photos I took that night suck, but here is one from the show:

[SamDBL]

i like the first all systems go album and got to see them in sf once, without frank daly. always mean to check out the 2nd album. just remembered there was a john kastner album released a while ago too that i should check out too.

I love the second ASG record, MON CHI CHI. My fave songs were actually by the new bass player, Thomas D'Arcy. Saw them play in front of virtually no one at a SXSW showcase.

Supposedly they recorded a bunch of stuff with Karl on bass for a rumored 3rd album... there's one tune on the 'tubes that's pretty killer:




reminds me a lot of Dave-era-ALL

Damn. Not bad.