Cambridge Audio Products

[lewdd]

Gotcha. It took me a while, but now I understand what you are looking to purchase.

[version sound]

I've had the exact opposite experience. I bought new Klipsch floor standing speakers to run through the Onkyo integrated amp I had for 3-4 years. The speakers sounded very bright compared to the JBL's I had but were much more clearer with a wider soundstage. All the things I wanted, but some songs were super bright on cymbals. I replaced the Onkyo with a CA and the brightness disappeared.

People tend to get used to the sound of any component, especially speakers and headphones after a time. Let's just say that a lot of the Klipsch speakers with those copper colored woofers are not very linear.

The source can have a big impact also, especially if you use a turntable. Most of the common integrated amps and receivers have horrible phono sections with way too much capacitance for a lot of cartridges being made today. Plug a turntable into those built-in phono sections and there will be some excess brightness, usually around 10K. Modeling and measurements prove that also.

That’s interesting, because my previous amp had a built-in phono section. The CA doesn’t. I run it through a matching CA phono pre-amp. The CA definitely sounds brighter/harsher on some records than the old amp did. Maybe it’s just more revealing? Maybe it’s my cartridge (Goldring Elektra) or TT (Goldring GR 1.2 with an upgraded platter and mat). They are certainly nothing fancy, but are fairly well regarded for what they are. Maybe I need to make sure they are set-up properly. I have a replacement stylus, but I don’t think the current one could be near worn out. It’s probably got less than 1,000 hours on it.

[patient_ot]

That’s interesting, because my previous amp had a built-in phono section. The CA doesn’t. I run it through a matching CA phono pre-amp. The CA definitely sounds brighter/harsher on some records than the old amp did. Maybe it’s just more revealing? Maybe it’s my cartridge (Goldring Elektra) or TT (Goldring GR 1.2 with an upgraded platter and mat). They are certainly nothing fancy, but are fairly well regarded for what they are. Maybe I need to make sure they are set-up properly. I have a replacement stylus, but I don’t think the current one could be near worn out. It’s probably got less than 1,000 hours on it.

What model of CA phono preamp do you have there?

RE: the turntable, am I correct in thinking that is a rebranded Rega turntable? Does it have hardwired cabling or are there RCA jacks in the back of the turntable?

Goldring didn't actually make the cart either. It's a rebranded Excel that's been around since the 70s.

It's possible your stylus is worn out, or significantly worn, and you just don't know it. 1,000 hours is an old rule of thumb but not really accurate based on data we have today. Most carts that are designed to track at or near 2g today will have significant wear at around 500-700 hours. When a stylus gets worn, it won't be able to navigate difficult passages as well. And some cartridges are not that good at tracking and tracing tough passages to begin with.

RE: your old amp, too many things that can go wrong with vintage amps from the 70s and 80s unless fully serviced. I dunno what you had.

What speakers (brand and model) are you using? What records in particular are sounding harsh?

[version sound]

Yeah, the TT is more or less a Planar 1, and the connectors are hardwired.

The amp is an Azur 540a and the pre-amp is a 540P.

The old amp was a Technics (SA-EX140, I think) circa 2000.

The speakers are some party boy DCM KX10s that I bought in like 1997.

[lewdd]

several reviews here from 20 years ago that also feel the tweeters are bright

http://www.audioreview.com/product/spea ... 2.html?p=2

[patient_ot]

Yeah, the TT is more or less a Planar 1, and the connectors are hardwired.

The amp is an Azur 540a and the pre-amp is a 540P.

The old amp was a Technics (SA-EX140, I think) circa 2000.

The speakers are some party boy DCM KX10s that I bought in like 1997.

Highly unlikely the amp is the problem unless something is broken.

Not enough spec info for your Tech amp (I looked it up), not that it matters because you're not using it anymore.

I don't like those older gen CA phono preamps. Most of them had 220pf for input capacitance including the one you have. With a little over 100pf in the captive cabling that would bring you to 320pf total. That's bad for an MM cartridge with 560mH of inductance.

Quick modeling using a program tells us that will lead to peaking at the high frequencies. We don't want that, so the solution is to get another phono stage with only 100pf input capacitance or less (if possible) or mod the unit you already have. If you are not experienced with modding gear and using a soldering iron, forget that option.

Quick google search and I couldn't find measurements for the speakers. Likely buried in a back issue of a magazine somewhere. Party speakers , if that's what they are, are not meant for accurate reproduction. They will typically have boosted bass and highs.

So besides addressing the phono stage and maybe changing your stylus, we can look at what can be done about the speakers. You can try experimenting with positioning. You can try EQing them, using an EQ box like the one JDS Labs sells for $100.

Chain would be:

TT > phono preamp > EQ box > amp

Or, you could just get new speakers. You may have to try a few sets to find something you like.

[patient_ot]

several reviews here from 20 years ago that also feel the tweeters are bright

http://www.audioreview.com/product/spea ... 2.html?p=2

Entirely possible, but measurements if we could find them would be much more informative.

[lewdd]

I have a pair of these I can sell you - JBL Arena 170 and a matching sub - JBL Arena S10. I also have an Ortofon red on a headshell I could sell you too. It has never been used. I came with my Technics TT but I replaced it before using it.

[version sound]

Don’t know if this is what you were looking for, but here are some specs on the DCMs:

Specs:
Type: 3 way, 3 driver loudspeaker system
Frequency Response: 30Hz to 20kHz
Recommended Amplifier: 5 to 175W
Impedance: 8Ω
Sensitivity: 97dB
Bass: 1 x 10" cone
Midbass: 1 x 6" cone
Tweeter: 1 x 3/4" horn loaded bullet
Enclosure: transmission line
Dimensions: 29-3/4 x 12-11/16 x 11-3/4 inches

[patient_ot]

Don’t know if this is what you were looking for, but here are some specs on the DCMs:

Specs:
Type: 3 way, 3 driver loudspeaker system
Frequency Response: 30Hz to 20kHz
Recommended Amplifier: 5 to 175W
Impedance: 8Ω
Sensitivity: 97dB
Bass: 1 x 10" cone
Midbass: 1 x 6" cone
Tweeter: 1 x 3/4" horn loaded bullet
Enclosure: transmission line
Dimensions: 29-3/4 x 12-11/16 x 11-3/4 inches

No, sorry. I should have been more clear. I was looking for a third party frequency response measurement. Not the frequency range as shown above. It would be a graph that looks like the one below. Note this is for a completely different speaker.

[lewdd]

Can you find that for JBL Arena 170 and Klipsch RP-5000F and then explain it to me?

[patient_ot]

Can you find that for JBL Arena 170 and Klipsch RP-5000F and then explain it to me?

Don't want to get into subs.

Couldn't find anything on that particular model of speaker.

Here's a vid that shows how to interpret a set of speaker measurements:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkHNhSRDqqw

Note that not every site or mag that does measurements is using the same system, so results may differ between those systems.

Generally, a theoretically perfect speaker would be razor flat throughout the audible band.

However, no speaker is perfect and that is very difficult to achieve, especially when room acoustics come into play. A very echoey room can make things sound bad quickly.

Speakers with very big dips or peaks in the response that can't easily be dealt with should probably be avoided unless you like a wacky interpretation of your music.

The last Klipsch speakers I heard were at a big box store and they were a bookshelf model. Sounded like icepicks going into my ears with nasty boosted highs. Not my cup of tea. Measurements of the same or similar model confirmed the same.

Most speaker companies make several models and not every model is going to sound the same or perform the same.

[lewdd]

I watched that video and read some of the test results on the site of Klipsch speakers. He didn't have a test on the floor standing ones I have in my music room or the powered bookshelf ones I have in my TV room. I guess the only thing that matters is they sound good to my ears and everyone who has sat in the chair in the room. Maybe it is because I have lots of carpet in the room, lots of things hanging on the walls, the room is in the basement, the speakers are toed in and the sound appears to meet at the chair or some or no combination of all of that.

Interestingly, the JBL brand had some pretty good scores on the tests he did on them. I thought mine were good sounding, but was given guidance that replacing them versus the Onkyo amp was probably a better 1st move. I am tempted to hook the JBL up to the CA and see if they sound any better or worse than the Klipsch as I still have the JBL speakers and sub idle.

[patient_ot]

I watched that video and read some of the test results on the site of Klipsch speakers. He didn't have a test on the floor standing ones I have in my music room or the powered bookshelf ones I have in my TV room. I guess the only thing that matters is they sound good to my ears and everyone who has sat in the chair in the room. Maybe it is because I have lots of carpet in the room, lots of things hanging on the walls, the room is in the basement, the speakers are toed in and the sound appears to meet at the chair or some or no combination of all of that.

Interestingly, the JBL brand had some pretty good scores on the tests he did on them. I thought mine were good sounding, but was given guidance that replacing them versus the Onkyo amp was probably a better 1st move. I am tempted to hook the JBL up to the CA and see if they sound any better or worse than the Klipsch as I still have the JBL speakers and sub idle.

One thing to keep in mind is that no lab test (not from that site, not from any other site) is going to mimic 100% what is in YOUR room. You want to know what's going on in YOUR room? You would need purchase a calibrated microphone and download test software like REW, then run some frequency sweeps. There are tutorials online that explain how to do this.

Like any brand, JBL and it's subsidiaries make a lot of different stuff. Not all of it is going to be good.

[lewdd]

Thanks for the insight and education, but I have no interest in spending any money on testing equipment. All that will do will be having me chase the perfect speaker that doesn't exist and spending even more money. I have enough challenges holding back from reading audiophile articles and wanting to try X, Y, or Z. I need to make it time to just enjoy what I have and appreciate that it's better than anything I ever owned.

I remember that guy who has the site and does the testing saying he spent over $100k on testing equipment. He has more disposable income than I do to be able to do that. Hopefully, someone is paying him for some of his testing services.

[patient_ot]

Thanks for the insight and education, but I have no interest in spending any money on testing equipment. All that will do will be having me chase the perfect speaker that doesn't exist and spending even more money. I have enough challenges holding back from reading audiophile articles and wanting to try X, Y, or Z. I need to make it time to just enjoy what I have and appreciate that it's better than anything I ever owned.

I remember that guy who has the site and does the testing saying he spent over $100k on testing equipment. He has more disposable income than I do to be able to do that. Hopefully, someone is paying him for some of his testing services.

A calibrated microphone is $100 or so. Software is cheap or free. You don't need to spend $100K in test gear to figure out room acoustics. The only reason I have not tested my in-room response is because the place I'm living at right now is not permanent. I'll do it after my next move and when I have the budget for new speakers.

RE: audiophile mags, I find them pretty much useless. I do not even consider myself an audiophile. Much of the crap online is glorified ads or shilling.

Agree with appreciating what you have. I am not constantly changing up gear here. All my purchases are carefully considered and I have a set budget for new gear each year. If I buy something and don't like it, it goes back. I don't buy any gear where I can't get a home audition unit or send stuff back no questions asked for a full refund.

[patient_ot]

This video may be of interest to some folks.

[lewdd]

That speaker in the center gets rave reviews online. It boggles my mind how it does for being so small and appearing to only have one driver.

[patient_ot]

That speaker in the center gets rave reviews online. It boggles my mind how it does for being so small and appearing to only have one driver.

You'll find just as many detractors with that speaker. It's very much a love/hate thing. Not something I would personally buy based on my tastes.

[scannest]

I bought my new IEMs. If anyone is interested in a nicely preserved pair of Shure se535s, send me a PM. 5 years old, but with a replacement cable that's one year old. 100 bucks.

[lewdd]

whatcha buy

[scannest]

whatcha buy

Campfire Audio Andromeda