Green Day

[gregpolard]

This thread was inspired by the fact that I finally sat and listened to iUno!, iDos! and iTre! (well, almost done iTre! now).

I've kinda stuck with these guys through the ups and downs, got into them shortly before Dookie and stayed with for the ride. I don't think that anything will ever touch the first 2-3 LP's though.

Curious what thoughts are on them. I'm pretty sure I already know that half hate them, half only like the Lookout stuff...but hey. I'm bored.

[yourenotevil]

i kind of dig dookie, but i think it is mainly nostalgia out of anything else. after that, they went downhill pretty fast. they got big right when i got into punk though, so i guess my feelings about them have always been mixed. if someone gave me dookie on cd i wouldn't sell it.

[soulforce]

I have "Insomniac" on CD and tape. That's all I need from them. Oh, and the first two songs on "Dookie" are OK.

[gregpolard]

i kind of dig dookie, but i think it is mainly nostalgia out of anything else. after that, they went downhill pretty fast. they got big right when i got into punk though, so i guess my feelings about them have always been mixed. if someone gave me dookie on cd i wouldn't sell it.

I think Dookie really held up, compared to a lot of other stuff from that era. I think Insomniac is really underrated. It's fast and angry and a little darker too. I can understand people not caring after that record, but I really like Nimrod (could've been shaved about 4-5 songs shorter) and Warning too. I think American Idiot, although played to death, is really solid. The album after it (21st Century Breakdown) has some really good songs and some filler, basically it's just American Idiot b-sides to my ears. This new album trilogy could've been one really kick ass album instead of three ok ones, the best of the bunch being iUno! at first listen.

[JGJR]

This thread was inspired by the fact that I finally sat and listened to iUno!, iDos! and iTre! (well, almost done iTre! now).

I've kinda stuck with these guys through the ups and downs, got into them shortly before Dookie and stayed with for the ride. I don't think that anything will ever touch the first 2-3 LP's though.

Curious what thoughts are on them. I'm pretty sure I already know that half hate them, half only like the Lookout stuff...but hey. I'm bored.

You pretty answered your own question for me. I'll point out the line.

You wrote "I don't think that anything will ever touch the first 2-3 LP's though." I would add the early singles and compilation tracks, too, as some of their very best material is on those, too.

[gregpolard]

This thread was inspired by the fact that I finally sat and listened to iUno!, iDos! and iTre! (well, almost done iTre! now).

I've kinda stuck with these guys through the ups and downs, got into them shortly before Dookie and stayed with for the ride. I don't think that anything will ever touch the first 2-3 LP's though.

Curious what thoughts are on them. I'm pretty sure I already know that half hate them, half only like the Lookout stuff...but hey. I'm bored.

You pretty answered your own question for me. I'll point out the line.

You wrote "I don't think that anything will ever touch the first 2-3 LP's though." I would add the early singles and compilation tracks, too, as some of their very best material is on those, too.

Well...yeah.

[WrEtcH]

using my usual schtick,

I'm a Bay Area guy, I'm obligated to like GREEN DAY, but in all seriousness, I dunno what level of fan I am, but I buy all the albums and see them when I can, but I do like a lot of other bands more than them. I do miss the days when you can see them in a intimate venue or club. they still have a lot of energy live and still put on a good show

[gregpolard]

using my usual schtick,

I'm a Bay Area guy, I'm obligated to like GREEN DAY, but in all seriousness, I dunno what level of fan I am, but I buy all the albums and see them when I can, but I do like a lot of other bands more than them. I do miss the days when you can see them in a intimate venue or club. they still have a lot of energy live and still put on a good show

That was something I was going to add. I don't think anyone can say they're not a good live band. I saw them for the first time in 1997 when they were kinda on a downswing (I wanted to see them in '94/'95 but didn't have the means) and they were great! They played the Electric Factory here in Philly which holds maybe 3000.

Then I saw them again in 2002 and again, kinda still on a downswing. It was when Blink 182 headlined and, though I love Blink, GD mopped the floor with them. I think they deserved to have the comeback they had with American Idiot.

[the mean]

I stopped paying attention all together when they straight stole the chorus from "All The Young Dudes," but they fell off long before that. Most of the modern stuff is passable enough, but the early stuff was really good. I also like "Time of Your Life," which everyone else seems to hate.

I also was at their first show with a drummer (I believe Billie and Mike played once drummerless prior to that,) and used to book them what seemed like every three months. Both drummers were weirdos in their own way.

[JGJR]

using my usual schtick,

I'm a Bay Area guy, I'm obligated to like GREEN DAY, but in all seriousness, I dunno what level of fan I am, but I buy all the albums and see them when I can, but I do like a lot of other bands more than them. I do miss the days when you can see them in a intimate venue or club. they still have a lot of energy live and still put on a good show

That was something I was going to add. I don't think anyone can say they're not a good live band. I saw them for the first time in 1997 when they were kinda on a downswing (I wanted to see them in '94/'95 but didn't have the means) and they were great! They played the Electric Factory here in Philly which holds maybe 3000.

Then I saw them again in 2002 and again, kinda still on a downswing. It was when Blink 182 headlined and, though I love Blink, GD mopped the floor with them. I think they deserved to have the comeback they had with American Idiot.

I've seen both bands and it's no surprise to me at all that Green Day mopped the floor with Blink. Not only are they a much better band, but a much better live band, too, though I am comparing a Green Day show headlining at City Gardens in early '93 after Kerplunk! came out (and a similarly great show a few months later that year at Roseland when they blew the headliners Bad Religion off the stage and I love BR so I am not saying that lightly) with a Blink appearance I happened to catch at the Warped Tour in the late '90s (so perhaps a bit unfair).

Anyhow, I became a fan of Green Day in 1991 when all they had out was 39 Smooth (I remember finding the cassette at the county fair that year) and those aforementioned singles and comp tracks. I absolutely loved them up to and including not just Kerplunk! but the cassette promo I got for Dookie that had a few songs (including "Longview"). Once they got MTV play and became massive, I lost interest. I still have a soft spot for them and don't turn them off when they're on the radio or whatever, but just haven't bought anything of theirs since Kerplunk! And also, the post-American Idiot stuff I've heard by them is utterly atrocious!

[JGJR]

I stopped paying attention all together when they straight stole the chorus from "All The Young Dudes," but they fell off long before that. Most of the modern stuff is passable enough, but the early stuff was really good. I also like "Time of Your Life," which everyone else seems to hate.

I also was at their first show with a drummer (I believe Billie and Mike played once drummerless prior to that,) and used to book them what seemed like every three months. Both drummers were weirdos in their own way.

Mike is a really nice dude from the limited interaction I had with him (met him at that '93 show opening for Bad Religion) and everyone else seems to concur. Anyway, what song of theirs rips off "All the Young Dudes?"

[MXV]

I was never a huge fan but there's no denying they wrote a lot of good songs. I really stopped paying attention and buying their records after Insomniac. Dookie is my favorite and probably most people's since it sold like 11 billion copies. It still blows my mind that these guys who used to play shows here at little clubs all the time and crash at my friend's houses are now superstars. Believe it or not I've never seen them live. When they were young and still on Lookout they'd play here all the time but I never cared enough to go to any of those shows as I was far more interested in industrial music and Sub Pop/Amrep bands.

[gregpolard]

I stopped paying attention all together when they straight stole the chorus from "All The Young Dudes," but they fell off long before that. Most of the modern stuff is passable enough, but the early stuff was really good. I also like "Time of Your Life," which everyone else seems to hate.

I also was at their first show with a drummer (I believe Billie and Mike played once drummerless prior to that,) and used to book them what seemed like every three months. Both drummers were weirdos in their own way.

Mike is a really nice dude from the limited interaction I had with him (met him at that '93 show opening for Bad Religion) and everyone else seems to concur. Anyway, what song of theirs rips off "All the Young Dudes?"

21 Guns from 21st Century Breakdown

[the mean]

Somewhere in a box I have what I believe are negatives of the only pics from that first show. I should find them and make a little money for my next kid.

[tango fistula]

I liked em ok until I was dumb enuff to book them for a show in
1992...they no showed and I call the drummer and he tells me
that they got a better offer to play some rich girls party instead.
He was, of course, a total douche and I haven't listened to them since.

They ripped off so many of my fave bands that if they paid royalties like
Elastica and Nirvana did those bands might be able to pay some bills.

Fuck those thieves.

[patient_ot]

I heard them during the Dookie era and thought they had a couple of OK songs but Billie's voice just grated on me so much I could never be a fan.

[scannest]

I don't get all this talk of how good they are live. I saw them a number of times between '94 and '00 and plenty on TV since and they have always included way too many lame "audience participation" moments (sing-alongs, chants, etc). It's like they read some playbook that said "If you're gonna be a huge band you've gotta do this and this and this...". The Foo Fighters succumbed to this as well, just not as early on. Why do all arena acts have to behave the same way?

[scannest]

I liked em ok until I was dumb enuff to book them for a show in
1992...they no showed and I call the drummer and he tells me
that they got a better offer to play some rich girls party instead.
He was, of course, a total douche and I haven't listened to them since.

There was a running joke "back in the day" about how many shows they booked and canceled at ABC No Rio.

[gregpolard]

I don't get all this talk of how good they are live. I saw them a number of times between '94 and '00 and plenty on TV since and they have always included way too many lame "audience participation" moments (sing-alongs, chants, etc). It's like they read some playbook that said "If you're gonna be a huge band you've gotta do this and this and this...". The Foo Fighters succumbed to this as well, just not as early on. Why do all arena acts have to behave the same way?

FWIW, they weren't doing all of that arena "say heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy (heyyyyyy) ohhhhhhhhhhhhh (ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh)" etc. stuff the two times I saw them.

I've seen footage of the American Idiot and on tours and it's different. Having said that though, they're still super solid live. Sound great. Lots of energy, etc.

[john stabb]

Oh man, you had to go & stink up the page with Green Day Ugh, if I let myself get to writing about what I think of these never polished turds, I'm gonna give myself a heart attack. Ugh.

[gregpolard]

Oh man, you had to go & stink up the page with Green Day Ugh, if I let myself get to writing about what I think of these never polished turds, I'm gonna give myself a heart attack. Ugh.

As much as I don't want you to have a heart attack...if somehow you can compose yourself I'd love to hear your thoughts!

[JGJR]

I liked em ok until I was dumb enuff to book them for a show in
1992...they no showed and I call the drummer and he tells me
that they got a better offer to play some rich girls party instead.
He was, of course, a total douche and I haven't listened to them since.

There was a running joke "back in the day" about how many shows they booked and canceled at ABC No Rio.

I was thinking the exact same thing, scannest. I remember one in '92 that they canceled. I remember reading that they thought the club had been shuttered or some such thing. Interestingly, a much younger artist whom I interviewed last year (and who, to the best of my knowledge, has never played there) also thought the same thing, but ABC is still going.

[john stabb]

Okay Greg (watching SOA right now so I'm calm), here's my honest thoughts on GreenSpring, I mean OffDay.

I've never been a fan of theirs but thought they started out in mid-80's having a punk-pop sound a la Descendents. They still did nothing for me but I didn't have any major qualms with the kids. If I wanted to listen to the Descendents, than I'll listen to the Descendents, right By the time they did (which I still am amazed how popular it was with such a juvenile childish name ) DOOKIE, I started to have a strong dislike of the bratty boys from Berkley. More juvenile shit in the form of lyrics about masturbating & all. And this little whiny kid using his fake british accent & a musical sound not unlike The Dickies.

But I'd still not seen what they were like in front of people until the shit on MTV with their appearance in one of the most embarrassing attempt of a festival: Woodstock. The spitting on people (like they were pretending to be a real Punk band in '77 UK) deal really disgusted me. Never thought spitting on people or vice versa was Punk, just gross. And degrading like when white trash rednecks did it to black people in those hateful days of a nation's shame. Not cool. I had a few individuals in the 80's having trouble keeping their saliva in their mouths & I wanted to KILL them. It pissed me off that these little shits were trading their own spittle with their fans like it was a fun behavior.

By the time they got bigger & bigger, their antics became less irritating to see and their sound more acoustic. Honestly, I never felt that acoustic ditty "Time of your Lives" was as horrible as Anthony Keidis attempt at one but shocking that it became some kind of freaking National anthem. I guess they needed another one to take the place of Gary Glitter's after his child-molest arrest.

I hear all kinds of musical comparisons to The Who with their supposed "concept" album, AMERICAN IDIOT, but I don't hear it. Another shocker (like TOMMY & QUADROPHENIA): the thing became a musical Their snotty Punky-roots are far lost by now but does anyone else hear how big of a ripoff "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" is to basically several Social Distortion songs? So now their stealing from another Cali-Punk group and that doesn't shock me at all. It made them a little bit more listenable to me but I don't have any of their songs on my iPod. It's just not my bag, mon'.

I kind of remember the quote Stan Lee (The Dickies) made in some hokey Punk Rock piece (they decided to toss a scrap to us, huh?) in Musician Magazine. I may not be quoting it perfectly but he said "If someone told me that a band would be doing our songs but singing with a fake british accent and be given a Platinum Record, I'd tell them they were crazy". I couldn't agree more.

To me, I think it's all in the timing. The Dickies have struggled for years & will never come remotely close to what a band like Green Day have been given. Oh sure, the kids struggled in a shitty Van for a few years before the success of DOOKIE but they'll never come close to how much shit bands ate in the 80's like Social D, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, TSOL, Ramones + The Clash (which GD have been compared to both plenty), Adolescents, Husker Du, G.I., SCREAM, DK's/etc. So am I envious or resentful of them not paying their dues Nope. I would not want the kind of hoopla, adulation, or fan-base that a band like Green Day. Sure, (like most musicians) I'd love to make a living doing something that stirs me up & I find enjoyable. But not that way.

[JGJR]

To add to what stabb wrote, I have never, ever understood the Clash comparisons that this band has gotten over the years. I think it was further aided by that scene in High Fidelity (which also compared them to SLF; another comparison I don't get at all; couldn't be more different). To their own admission, they were influenced by Husker Du, The Replacements and other Lookout!/Gilman bands that they came up with, not by UK stuff. I will say that Billie Joe's vocals have more than a little in common with Leonard (Dickies) and Mike Ness from Social D, though, but that may just be the nasally thing. And I agree that their success was in large part a matter of timing.

[danny]

my ten year old has been a big fan since he was about 6. i took him to a GD show a year or so ago and must confess to being impressed. because of sam, i hear the songs a lot. i don't like them all and, clearly, much is very derivative. but i must confess to finding a lot of it to be very catchy.

[pedro]

I think the guys in Green Day should be maimed.

[tad ghostal]

To add to what stabb wrote, I have never, ever understood the Clash comparisons that this band has gotten over the years. I think it was further aided by that scene in High Fidelity (which also compared them to SLF; another comparison I don't get at all; couldn't be more different). To their own admission, they were influenced by Husker Du, The Replacements and other Lookout!/Gilman bands that they came up with, not by UK stuff. I will say that Billie Joe's vocals have more than a little in common with Leonard (Dickies) and Mike Ness from Social D, though, but that may just be the nasally thing. And I agree that their success was in large part a matter of timing.

I've never heard them compared to the Clash before. I don't get that one at all. There was an interesting story in that book on the SF punk scene (I forget it's name) where one of the interviewees talks about how Billie Joe started asking friends about bands like Stiff Little Fingers and the Buzzcocks and whoever else they were being compared to as they started to get huge because he had never heard them.

Stabb's comparison to the Descendents is funny to me because I know there's a YouTube video floating around of an early Green Day show where Billie Joe tells the audience that he doesn't like the Descendents after someone made a reference to "I Like Food".

[gregpolard]

To add to what stabb wrote, I have never, ever understood the Clash comparisons that this band has gotten over the years. I think it was further aided by that scene in High Fidelity (which also compared them to SLF; another comparison I don't get at all; couldn't be more different). To their own admission, they were influenced by Husker Du, The Replacements and other Lookout!/Gilman bands that they came up with, not by UK stuff. I will say that Billie Joe's vocals have more than a little in common with Leonard (Dickies) and Mike Ness from Social D, though, but that may just be the nasally thing. And I agree that their success was in large part a matter of timing.

I've never heard them compared to the Clash before. I don't get that one at all. There was an interesting story in that book on the SF punk scene (I forget it's name) where one of the interviewees talks about how Billie Joe started asking friends about bands like Stiff Little Fingers and the Buzzcocks and whoever else they were being compared to as they started to get huge because he had never heard them.

Stabb's comparison to the Descendents is funny to me because I know there's a YouTube video floating around of an early Green Day show where Billie Joe tells the audience that he doesn't like the Descendents after someone made a reference to "I Like Food".

Yeah, I never really read anything that would make me think he (or the rest of the band) were big Descendents fans. Just cause they play a similar style doesn't necessarily mean they had any influence. That's funny though.

Blink 182, on the other hand, love Descendents and admit they are a huge influence. I know on one of the tours they did once they were playing arenas, they were covering "Hope".

[version sound]

I like that Time of Your Life song because it reminds me of Warner era Husker Du.

[gregpolard]

I like that Time of Your Life song because it reminds me of Warner era Husker Du.

Never really thought about that but wow, you're right.

[yourenotevil]

I like that Time of Your Life song because it reminds me of Warner era Husker Du.

Never really thought about that but wow, you're right.

if we all ever meet at some real life dag function, you guys ain't dj'ing.

[jaybird]

I liked the first few records back in the early 90s, lost interest after Dookie. The only time I actually tried to see them, they played my friend's garage party on Grosse Ile, MI in 1992, but I got pulled over on the way there, and missed their set while the pigs were searching my car for drugs or whatever.

Flyer:




As for the Descendents/Green Day angle - there's a fairly extensive history of mutual public shit-talking between both bands, but it seems to have died down in recent years. But there were a few years there in the 90s where Bill Stevenson would regularly complain in interviews about Green Day ripping off the Descendents, and the Billie Joe would call Bill a fat, smelly has-been, etc. Good stuff.

[gregpolard]

I liked the first few records back in the early 90s, lost interest after Dookie. The only time I actually tried to see them, they played my friend's garage party on Grosse Ile, MI in 1992, but I got pulled over on the way there, and missed their set while the pigs were searching my car for drugs or whatever.

Flyer:




As for the Descendents/Green Day angle - there's a fairly extensive history of mutual public shit-talking between both bands, but it seems to have died down in recent years. But there were a few years there in the 90s where Bill Stevenson would regularly complain in interviews about Green Day ripping off the Descendents, and the Billie Joe would call Bill a fat, smelly has-been, etc. Good stuff.

Oh wow! I would see Bill Stevenson complaining about Green Day but never saw any of Billie Joe's comments. That's pretty harsh! Recently Tom Delonge from Blink had a pic on Instagram of him and Bill Stevenson together. Irrelevant since he's in Blink and not Green Day but cool none the less.

[version sound]

I like that Time of Your Life song because it reminds me of Warner era Husker Du.

Never really thought about that but wow, you're right.

Yeah, when that song came out, I totally thought it was their version of "These Important Years".

[JGJR]

Yeah, I never really read anything that would make me think he (or the rest of the band) were big Descendents fans. Just cause they play a similar style doesn't necessarily mean they had any influence. That's funny though.

Blink 182, on the other hand, love Descendents and admit they are a huge influence. I know on one of the tours they did once they were playing arenas, they were covering "Hope".

I agree re: the first paragraph above. I don't hear Descendents in Green Day at all (just a similar style). Now the Mats and Huskers is a different story, but I think they are descended (pun not intended) more from that ilk than from Bill Stevenson & co (though at the time, I'm sure Bill disagreed).

Re: the 2nd paragraph, I think I mentioned it here or maybe on the old board before it shuttered, but my high school friends' band Smiling Idiots used to cover "Hope" in the very early '90s ('91/'92). I'm pretty sure I heard their version before either of the Descendents versions!

[BAIN]

There was a running joke "back in the day" about how many shows they booked and canceled at ABC No Rio.

I was there for one of those shows that they cancelled. 1992 or 1993, they decided to drive to Boston instead. Neil from Nausea was still booking and I remember seeing Huasipungo for the first time.

I did finally catch up with them at City Gardens w Tilt one night and then the following night at Lehigh University w Tilt and Weston.

Not sure if it was before or after Woodstock 1994, but the last time I saw them was opening at Lollapalooza 1994 at Randall's Island.

Haven't listened to or bought anything since Dookie. I do have everything on vinyl and I do remember the first time I heard them was on the "Can you Break Through" compilation from Skene records. Damn, that is a fine comp.

[JGJR]

There was a running joke "back in the day" about how many shows they booked and canceled at ABC No Rio.

I was there for one of those shows that they cancelled. 1992 or 1993, they decided to drive to Boston instead. Neil from Nausea was still booking and I remember seeing Huasipungo for the first time.

I did finally catch up with them at City Gardens w Tilt one night and then the following night at Lehigh University w Tilt and Weston.

Not sure if it was before or after Woodstock 1994, but the last time I saw them was opening at Lollapalooza 1994 at Randall's Island.

Haven't listened to or bought anything since Dookie. I do have everything on vinyl and I do remember the first time I heard them was on the "Can you Break Through" compilation from Skene records. Damn, that is a fine comp.

That was in spring '94 a few months before Woodstock and right before or right after Dookie came out, so before they got really big. I didn't go to that City Gardens show, but one the year before right after Kerplunk! came out. Anyway, I have a few friends who I'm pretty sure did go to that one in '94, though. I never did see Tilt.

And yeah, their song on Can You Break Through? is great. That comp is very hit and miss, but they and Sticks and Stones (one of my favorites from that era) are the stand-outs.

EDIT: March 18, 1994.

http://www.citygardensnj.com/pdf/1993-1994.pdf

[BAIN]

The opening track on that comp = (Fuel - For Lack of Better Words) reconfirmed my love for the sound that DC started and pushed me to follow the 2nd wave of emo (skramz) and really move past the basic punk and hardcore sound of the era.

Go to 4:17 to hear what I heard = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZS9xKPuSuM

[JGJR]

The opening track on that comp = (Fuel - For Lack of Better Words) reconfirmed my love for the sound that DC started and pushed me to follow the 2nd wave of emo (skramz) and really move past the basic punk and hardcore sound of the era.

Go to 4:17 to hear what I heard = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZS9xKPuSuM

Honestly, I forgot that they were on that comp, too. I liked their track, too, from what I remember of the songs on there.

[MXV]

The opening track on that comp = (Fuel - For Lack of Better Words) reconfirmed my love for the sound that DC started and pushed me to follow the 2nd wave of emo (skramz) and really move past the basic punk and hardcore sound of the era.

Go to 4:17 to hear what I heard = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZS9xKPuSuM

I don't think there is any more ridiculous name for a style of music than Skramz And I like that style of music too but the name makes zero sense and just sounds stupid to me. Where the hell did that name originate from and why? I believe they used to refer to that style of music as screamo until shitty modern day warped tour pop bands started using that term to describe their music.

[BAIN]

The opening track on that comp = (Fuel - For Lack of Better Words) reconfirmed my love for the sound that DC started and pushed me to follow the 2nd wave of emo (skramz) and really move past the basic punk and hardcore sound of the era.

Go to 4:17 to hear what I heard = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZS9xKPuSuM

I don't think there is any more ridiculous name for a style of music than Skramz And I like that style of music too but the name makes zero sense and just sounds stupid to me. Where the hell did that name originate from and why? I believe they used to refer to that style of music as screamo until shitty modern day warped tour pop bands started using that term to describe their music.

You are absolutely correct in your assumption. The second wave of emo that included bands like mohinder, antioch arrow, indian summer etc... has been labeled as "skramz". Not sure why it is and it is very stupid. I only used the term because I don't know the age bracket at daghouse and I will never use the word screamo for the era, because I was there and that word didn't exist yet.

How do you feel about the term "twinklecore" surrounding all this bullshit trending articles about the return of the 3rd wave of midwestern styled emo? = the 5th wave of emo.

[JGJR]

The opening track on that comp = (Fuel - For Lack of Better Words) reconfirmed my love for the sound that DC started and pushed me to follow the 2nd wave of emo (skramz) and really move past the basic punk and hardcore sound of the era.

Go to 4:17 to hear what I heard = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZS9xKPuSuM

I don't think there is any more ridiculous name for a style of music than Skramz And I like that style of music too but the name makes zero sense and just sounds stupid to me. Where the hell did that name originate from and why? I believe they used to refer to that style of music as screamo until shitty modern day warped tour pop bands started using that term to describe their music.

I have honestly never, and I mean never, heard the term "skramz" used for a style of music (that or any other) until today. I also didn't hear screamo used until at least the late '90s when Thursday and bands of that ilk came about, so to refer to bands like Heroin or Assfactor 4 as "screamo" is revisionist since it wasn't used then.

[jaybird]

The opening track on that comp = (Fuel - For Lack of Better Words) reconfirmed my love for the sound that DC started and pushed me to follow the 2nd wave of emo (skramz) and really move past the basic punk and hardcore sound of the era.

Go to 4:17 to hear what I heard = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZS9xKPuSuM

I don't think there is any more ridiculous name for a style of music than Skramz And I like that style of music too but the name makes zero sense and just sounds stupid to me. Where the hell did that name originate from and why? I believe they used to refer to that style of music as screamo until shitty modern day warped tour pop bands started using that term to describe their music.

I have honestly never, and I mean never, heard the term "skramz" used for a style of music (that or any other) until today. I also didn't hear screamo used until at least the late '90s when Thursday and bands of that ilk came about, so to refer to bands like Heroin or Assfactor 4 as "screamo" is revisionist since it wasn't used then.

x2

Seriously, "skramz"?

[patient_ot]

I heard "skramz" maybe 6 months ago. I listened to a ton of screamy DIY San Diego-style hardcore in the mid to late 90s (ordered from places like Stickfigure and Ebullition usually) and no one used that term then. I did start to hear "screamo" maybe around 2001 or 2002 and by that time my interest in the aforementioned style of music had waned considerably. A lot of that was due to the fact that as the 90s closed out the number of good records in the style went way down and the copycat nth-generation bands were everywhere. I think that the Portraits of Past LP and maybe a couple of 7''s by bands I can't remember now were the last good things associated with this stuff.

I think what happened is that people started apply the term "screamo" to more commercialized/rocky styles of hardcore that happened to have screamy vocals and were only borrowing superficial elements from the Gravity records type groups. If you listen to a lot of these modern day "screamo" bands, they have more in common with hair metal bands in terms of song structure and lyrical subject matter than anything like say Honeywell.

It kind of reminds me of the later, really crappy "dance industrial" bands that were aping the wax trax/Skinny Puppy sound in the late 90s/early 2000s. Sure they could imitate Ogre's vox but musically all those groups sucked. Nowhere near the texture, complexity, or depth musically that SP had at their best and all traces of freshness or any sort of novelty from the better wax trax stuff was nowhere to be found.

[patient_ot]

How do you feel about the term "twinklecore" surrounding all this bullshit trending articles about the return of the 3rd wave of midwestern styled emo? = the 5th wave of emo.

Twinklecore? Wow. Why does the internet feel the need to create 10 million different genre names for all this crap?. Sorry, but when stuff like Mineral and Christie Front Drive and their ilk came around, those were just indie rock bands that happened to be marketed to hardcore kids. I didn't know anyone at the time that would've argued otherwise. Most of that stuff has held up terribly over time as well...there were just way too many Sunny Day Real Estate wannabe groups from '96-98...I find it funny that this stuff is undergoing some sort of revival these days. I've heard a couple of random bands linked in on some web articles I saw and wow are they truly awful. If I want to hear SDRE, I'll listen to SDRE.

[gregpolard]

So yeah....Green Day.

[JGJR]

I heard "skramz" maybe 6 months ago. I listened to a ton of screamy DIY San Diego-style hardcore in the mid to late 90s (ordered from places like Stickfigure and Ebullition usually) and no one used that term then. I did start to hear "screamo" maybe around 2001 or 2002 and by that time my interest in the aforementioned style of music had waned considerably. A lot of that was due to the fact that as the 90s closed out the number of good records in the style went way down and the copycat nth-generation bands were everywhere. I think that the Portraits of Past LP and maybe a couple of 7''s by bands I can't remember now were the last good things associated with this stuff.

I think what happened is that people started apply the term "screamo" to more commercialized/rocky styles of hardcore that happened to have screamy vocals and were only borrowing superficial elements from the Gravity records type groups. If you listen to a lot of these modern day "screamo" bands, they have more in common with hair metal bands in terms of song structure and lyrical subject matter than anything like say Honeywell.

It kind of reminds me of the later, really crappy "dance industrial" bands that were aping the wax trax/Skinny Puppy sound in the late 90s/early 2000s. Sure they could imitate Ogre's vox but musically all those groups sucked. Nowhere near the texture, complexity, or depth musically that SP had at their best and all traces of freshness or any sort of novelty from the better wax trax stuff was nowhere to be found.

I was never a big Skinny Puppy fan (liked a couple of songs here and there), but regardless I agree with this 100%.

[JGJR]

How do you feel about the term "twinklecore" surrounding all this bullshit trending articles about the return of the 3rd wave of midwestern styled emo? = the 5th wave of emo.

Twinklecore? Wow. Why does the internet feel the need to create 10 million different genre names for all this crap?. Sorry, but when stuff like Mineral and Christie Front Drive and their ilk came around, those were just indie rock bands that happened to be marketed to hardcore kids. I didn't know anyone at the time that would've argued otherwise. Most of that stuff has held up terribly over time as well...there were just way too many Sunny Day Real Estate wannabe groups from '96-98...I find it funny that this stuff is undergoing some sort of revival these days. I've heard a couple of random bands linked in on some web articles I saw and wow are they truly awful. If I want to hear SDRE, I'll listen to SDRE.

I'm just gonna put this out there. Partially this is because I also heard and occasionally saw a lot of early SDRE-influenced groups in the '90s (some much better than others), but I actually prefer their last two records, especially The Rising Tide.

Also, I don't disagree that stuff like Mineral and Christie Front Drive is basically indie rock, but it's hardly like they had marketing departments with press sheets going out to publicists, etc. My impression is that they played basements, VFW Halls, et al. and not clubs for the most part. I could be wrong about this, though.

[yourenotevil]

How do you feel about the term "twinklecore" surrounding all this bullshit trending articles about the return of the 3rd wave of midwestern styled emo? = the 5th wave of emo.

Twinklecore? Wow. Why does the internet feel the need to create 10 million different genre names for all this crap?. Sorry, but when stuff like Mineral and Christie Front Drive and their ilk came around, those were just indie rock bands that happened to be marketed to hardcore kids. I didn't know anyone at the time that would've argued otherwise. Most of that stuff has held up terribly over time as well...there were just way too many Sunny Day Real Estate wannabe groups from '96-98...I find it funny that this stuff is undergoing some sort of revival these days. I've heard a couple of random bands linked in on some web articles I saw and wow are they truly awful. If I want to hear SDRE, I'll listen to SDRE.

I'm just gonna put this out there. Partially this is because I also heard and occasionally saw a lot of early SDRE-influenced groups in the '90s (some much better than others), but I actually prefer their last two records, especially The Rising Tide.

Also, I don't disagree that stuff like Mineral and Christie Front Drive is basically indie rock, but it's hardly like they had marketing departments with press sheets going out to publicists, etc. My impression is that they played basements, VFW Halls, et al. and not clubs for the most part. I could be wrong about this, though.

99 percent of the time anything with a stupid subgenre name(slam metal, funeral doom, skramz, deathcore, whatever) ends up fucking sucking and usually ends in a few years anyway since the kids move onto something else.

[gregpolard]

1) You guys are totally derailing my Green Day thread.
2) JGJR, I still think it's insane that you take the last two SDRE LP's over the first two.
3) I was bored on Youtube last night and watched a documentary on "Dookie" that was pretty cool. They interview Paul Westerberg, Bob Mould, Elvis Costello...