Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby akissfan » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:59 pm

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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby gregpolard » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:07 pm

and now, I've seen it all.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:37 pm

I'll bet the Mean is fully on board with this.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby FormerLurker » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:54 pm

SamDBL wrote:I'll bet the Mean is fully on board with this.


:lol:
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby the mean » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:41 pm

If I was going to boycott the Descendants/All, it would be for their history of homophobic/misogynistic lyrics.

Funny that this one man boycott getting so much run.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby earthdog70 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:42 pm

A lot of the signatures feature "swear" words, I'm sure Mr. Brett will take this seriously :roll:
"And so it goes."-Kurt Vonnegut
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:18 am

the mean wrote:If I was going to boycott the Descendants/All, it would be for their history of homophobic/misogynistic lyrics.


Fuck off.

Funny that this one man boycott getting so much run.


Because people can't believe someone is this stupid. I'm not at all convinced this isn't satirical. But the point is well made that there is a huge contest among ultra-lefties based on who can find new and inventive ways to be the wettest blanket over completely harmless and inane things in the name of social justice righteousness. It's becoming quite a spectacle.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby scannest » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:32 am

The fact that this petition started in the UK makes me think it is 100% sincere. Calling someone a "Spastic" in England is roughly the same as calling someone a "Retard" in the US. You just wouldn't do it anymore. Now, "spazz" is a loooongh way from "spastic" as far as I'm concerned, but...
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:46 pm

Calling someone a space over here is the same slang as calling them a retard. A) the album title isn't calling anyone anything. You really have to be a dickhead to act like yyou're saving someone's feelings by complaining about it. B) I'll be damned if I can't call people retards.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby scannest » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:23 pm

SamDBL wrote:I'll be damned if I can't call people retards.

I should clarify - no one said you "can't." You're just a dick if you do.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:17 pm

scannest wrote:
SamDBL wrote:I'll be damned if I can't call people retards.

I should clarify - no one said you "can't." You're just a dick if you do.


It seems just that simple, doesn't it? Unfortunately, there is a thing called context. I could be being a dick by calling a mentally disabled person a retard. Or I could be joking around with a friend with completely innocent intentions, in which case no mentally disabled people are involved, or hurt. Or I could, even more innocently intentioned, name a fucking album with a word that really has no connection with mentally disabled people unless you strain beyond reason because you want to be unreasonable. Why do so many people think it's cool to be unreasonable, these days? It's pretty astounding that being an unreasonable, immature, whiny, pontificating milquetoast has somehow become synonymous with intellectual, selfless heroism to such a large group of people. And, like, the whinier and more unreasonable and milquetoasty you can be is somehow a good thing. In a certain crowd of people that somehow take up the majority of my facebook feed, you pretty much can't say anything any more unless it's a complaint against something. Seriously. It's insane/nauseating. If this petition is real, the person that thought of it must lead such a pathetic and miserable life with absolutely no purpose whatsoever that he thinks taking the time to start a 'movement' to try and change a fucking obviously joke album title of a fucking Descendents album is actually doing the world any good. Christ almighty.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby fiestaware » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:19 pm

SamDBL wrote:
scannest wrote:
SamDBL wrote:I'll be damned if I can't call people retards.

I should clarify - no one said you "can't." You're just a dick if you do.


That doesn't seem to present an obstacle.

SamDBL wrote:It seems just that simple, doesn't it? Unfortunately, there is a thing called context. I could be being a dick by calling a mentally disabled person a retard. Or I could be joking around with a friend with completely innocent intentions, in which case no mentally disabled people are involved


Of course not.

SamDBL wrote:Or I could, even more innocently intentioned, name a fucking album with a word that really has no connection with mentally disabled people unless you strain beyond reason because you want to be unreasonable. Why do so many people think it's cool to be unreasonable, these days? It's pretty astounding that being an unreasonable, immature, whiny, pontificating milquetoast has somehow become synonymous with intellectual, selfless heroism to such a large group of people. And, like, the whinier and more unreasonable and milquetoasty you can be is somehow a good thing. In a certain crowd of people that somehow take up the majority of my facebook feed, you pretty much can't say anything any more unless it's a complaint against something. Seriously. It's insane/nauseating. If this petition is real, the person that thought of it must lead such a pathetic and miserable life with absolutely no purpose whatsoever that he thinks taking the time to start a 'movement' to try and change a fucking obviously joke album title of a fucking Descendents album is actually doing the world any good. Christ almighty.


Sorry, you were saying...?
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:39 pm

Good one! But yeah... The fact that *everyone* on this board doesn't think the petition for the name Change is the most damning indictment on the horrid state of punk rock to date speaks volumes as to why this board by and large sucks shit. Edit: board protocol demands that I apologize for being insensitive to actual coprophagists. I'm so sorry. :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby The Snake » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:51 am

Hey, when someone here say that most of the people suck on this board, I don´t take it personally and I´m not offended by that.
As fot he title of a new Descendents album, I also don´t think that it is offensive to anyone and it seems that it was totally taken out of context and it´s a bit of a stretch to call out Descendents because of the album title.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:07 am

I don't think most of the people on the board suck. It's a vocal minority.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby The Snake » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:16 am

SamDBL wrote:I don't think most of the people on the board suck. It's a vocal minority.


Yeah, I know that, I didn´t expressed myself clear enough.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby JoeR » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:54 am

not to get into that battle of PC and Overly PC, I found this to be interesting.


http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/language ... 03020.html
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby scannest » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:51 am

That's a neat little summary, Joe. Thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, of the "millions" of "punk rock" "fans" in the world someone finds 238 people to sign his dopey petition and we should all start rending our garments at the supposed end of reasonableness.

:roll: (in lieu of a 'yawning' emoji)
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:28 am

Meh. Not that people are necessarily signing on. But if you don't think it's the stupidest thing in the world, I think that says something about you. Do you think it's the stupidest thing in the world? Or do you see at all where he might be coming from? I think a good chunk of people think it's stupid. But I also think that a good number of people reading it and talking about it think flippantly using the term 'spazz' is a social injustice of some sort. I think that's silly as fuck. The Descendents have taken heat for silly things from the punk community in the past. I just think this is a new, all-time low. And it is representative of the mentality of probably the majority of radical left punk types. They think unimportant things are extremely important.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby scannest » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:34 am

For the record - I think it is stupid, but not necessarily "the stupidest thing in the world," especially in the light of how serious a slur it is considered in the UK where the petition was started.
So while I think the people who are upset by the band's use of the slang 'Spazz' are ridiculous it is not without some tenuous connection to some distorted sense of politeness.
And now I'm gonna go listen to the record again. It's pretty great,
"It's got some great chanting on it" - gregpolard.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby Jimmy Heartburn » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:11 pm

Funny, I never knew spazz was considered an offensive term in the UK. I remember reading a british novel about an autistic boy who gets called 'spazza' by a bully. Where I'm from we just use spazz in regards to someone who's a bit high strung or freaks out over nothing.

Makes me think of the word GOOF. In many parts of Canada, it can be considered fighting words to some people as it's prison slang for child molester. I remember explaining that to my American cousin and his friends and them thinking that was hilarious.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby FlexMyHead » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:56 pm

Oddly enough, in another thread Sam was called to task about verbage he was using I, predicting the future better than Ms. Cleo, I posted this about the word "retard":

Postby FlexMyHead » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:34 pm

This is kinda on-topic and kinda off-topic, but at my real job (not my Hummel and record collecting one) part of what I have to do is evaluate children, often below the age of 6, with various issues that impacted them enough to be getting services from the public school system under the category of "Developmentally Delayed" (DD for short). In Florida, children can be identified as DD up until the age of six, so basically, they get services from 3 to 6 and then (typically before they enter Kindergarten) we evaluate them to remove the DD label and see if they meet the criteria for another category to continue to get services to assist with any delays they still may have. (longest fucking intro before getting to the point? I think YES).

So my point deals with "terms/words" and associations/meanings placed on them. As the Dead Milkmen sang about, let's look at a group of kids who like to be rounded up and taken to the zoo, yup, I'm talking about the retards. Before my time, in the schools they just called it Mental Retardation. Up to about 7 years ago, we had 3 different levels of Mental Retardation that were a little more descriptive, that would be Educable Mentally Handicapped, Trainable Mentally Handicapped and Severe & Profoundly Mentally Handicapped. Personally, I really really really totally and really HATED having to sit at a meeting with parents of, for example, a Down's Syndrome kid and tell them "well, you got yourself a Trainable Mentally Handicapped kid". Parent's would freak the fuck out at the word "Trainable", comments I heard over the years "You think my child is a monkey who can be taught to beg and plead? HE IS MORE THAN THAT." etc. I get it. Watching parents process having a special needs child is a different type of grief process. The grieve for all the things they thought their child might have one day done, but now realize the possibility is slim. Some parent's embrace it and focus on the positives, other's get mad and stay mad. Anyway, so currently they have scrapped the 3 different Mentally Handicapped terms and it's just Intellectually Disabled (InD). So we have the same meeting as 7 years ago, come up with the same results (as the definition of Mental Retardation, EMH, TMH, S/PMH and InD are the FUCKING SAME) but now we say they are Intellectual Disabled, but as soon as they parents go away we say "Ok, so they need an EMH, TMH or S/PMH class?". The point is, when we had three different levels and terms, just by knowing that, we knew their IQ range and a rough estimate of their adaptive level, but because the terms were thought to be harsh, we now are less descriptive and more vague and people just use the terms anyway when parent's aren't around, not to mock the kids, but to have an informed discussion of their needs. We changed the terms, not because they were not defined correctly, but because of what people thought of when they heard the words. Retardation was viewed not by it's description, but by the emotion is caused when heard by someone hearing it.


But anyway, I dunno if I use the word "retard" to describe a person doing something stupid, I think I'm more likely to say "fuck-tard", which I think is more descriptive and to the point. If I'm shopping or something and I overhear someone say "That dude looks like a retard", I dunno if I'd think that person is full of hate towards handicapped people or ignorant or crass or just not aware of how that term could be viewed. I guess if you have an idea that it could be considered offensive and you still choose to use it, then what I think doesn't really matter because you are going to keep on doing it. I do find that people that have a special needs person in their lives or whatever is less likely to use it, or at least it seems that way.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby SamDBL » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:24 am

I don't disagree that the term 'retard' is crass. But crass is/can different than hateful/ignorant/etc. When it comes to things like this, I have two general beliefs:

Words have context. Seems simple. But people don't generally care what the context is when it comes to slurs. If you use a slur, you are hateful, or perpetuating hate, etc. I just don't believe that is always the case. The grand dragon of the kkk saying the N word is quite different than Eddie Murphy saying it during a stand up routine. And all the shades in between. I believe a person could use a slur against someone else, and depending on the context, it could be crass, but fairly harmless. I also don't think it has to be made into any other indicator of the person's true intentions other than they have no problem being crass. How much that crassness offends you is up to you. But I don't think it's right to automatically assume that the person is a racist/homophobe/etc. If the act of simply saying the word makes you one of these things no matter what, I just disagree with that. If anyone says *anything*, you have to understand what the person means. I don't see why crass things would be any different. If I were to say the weather sucks today, and someone's response was that I'm a homophobe because I'm implying that sucking is a negative thing and that gay men show love to each other by sucking, which had absolutely nothing to do with my intentions and no relevance to the actual statement I was making... I think most of us would agree that that's unreasonable?

I also think that slurs and such are not the end all/be all of social injustices that require petitions, and lectures, and debates. It's pretty much a waste of time to go on these errands of policing how people speak in an effort to socially *force* everyone to think so much about not hurting other peoples' feelings in the slightest. Of course, most people don't want to hurt anyone's feelings if it can be avoided. But are hurt feelings from a slightly insensitive comment or album title really that big of a deal in the scheme of things? I can actually be on the higher end of sensitivity towards things that hurt my feelings or piss me off. But so what? That's life. If someone is a racist in their heart... yelling at them for making a racial joke will do nothing to change that. If a teenager calls something that he doesn't like 'gay', is it really worth more than an internal eye roll, at most? Whether or not he actually doesn't like gay people... policing his slang will have no effect on this. I work at a church on the weekends (even though I'm not a religious person). I've always found it funny that when a mild curse word slips out, certain people will wince as though they've been pinched really hard. Or, even worse, call it out "Please watch the language.". I mean, we are all adults there. A curse word is crass, but doesn't realistically hurt anyone. But some people like to make a show of how Godly they are by letting everyone know that *they* were hurt on God's behalf. I've always had a similar feeling about these social justice warrior types. Most don't do anything meaningful past writing blogs about how saying something totally no hurtful is hurtful to *someone*, and that makes them angry. Pretty soon it seems like every word in the dictionary will have been marked as offensive by someone on someone elses' behalf. That person will feel mighty righteous. Meanwhile, people are getting executed in the streets for not dressing properly or thrown from buildings for being gay, etc. I think social justice warriors' time could be muuuuch more wisely spent. If they weren't such lazy chicken shits, that is.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby Welly » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:09 pm

.
Last edited by Welly on Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Make the 'DESCENDENTS' Change LP Title

Postby Knutsen » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:24 am

scannest wrote:The fact that this petition started in the UK makes me think it is 100% sincere. Calling someone a "Spastic" in England is roughly the same as calling someone a "Retard" in the US. You just wouldn't do it anymore. Now, "spazz" is a loooongh way from "spastic" as far as I'm concerned, but...



I personally prefer to call certain people "Spango". seriously.
A nice compination of spastic, mongo and maybe a very soft mango.
and I can get all this frustration out, you fucking spango!
Listening to Punk today is like listening to Glenn Miller in 1982.
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