The Sopranos

The Sopranos

Postby scannest » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:09 am

I started re-watching The Sopranos in it's entirity after James Gandolfini's death. I finished last night. Two observsations:

1. It is still the best televsion drama of all-time. No other show touches it in terms of scope and depth.
2. Tony is killed by the guy in the Members-Only jacket in that last scene. I never thought this was the case, but re-watching everything (and reading David Chase's comments over the past few years) has convinced me.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby JGJR » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:34 am

I would rate Mad Men, Breaking Bad and The Wire over it, but it's in the Top 5 for sure. I need to re-watch it, though.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby yourenotevil » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:35 am

scannest wrote:I started re-watching The Sopranos in it's entirity after James Gandolfini's death. I finished last night. Two observsations:

1. It is still the best televsion drama of all-time. No other show touches it in terms of scope and depth.
2. Tony is killed by the guy in the Members-Only jacket in that last scene. I never thought this was the case, but re-watching everything (and reading David Chase's comments over the past few years) has convinced me.



yeah, i thought that was the case too. there is some blog that did a very comprehensive frame by frame analysis of how it is his death and how it matches the conversation tony and paulie(i believe it is him) have about death on the boat when they are fishing, something to the effect of, "it all goes black."

my only problems with the sopranos was the lack of direction in season 4 in some aspects. i believe they didn't the show was going to get renewed and they had some new writers and it took them awhile to get on track. i think matt weiner wrote horrible plot lines(despite his good work on mad men). i don't think his love stories really fit into the show. i remember he did one with finn and meadow that was too soap opera-ish(and i think he wrote all of the corny shit with tony's kid and the puerto rican sect'y). i get they they were trying to shed some light on what is like to deal with gay people in the mafia, but the whole going to vermont thing was fucking horrible. you could have cut out 3 or 4 episodes of that at least. i think that was all weiner too. aside from that, possibly the best written series ever. this one wins out over the wire because tony, chris, paulie and that cast was so great. they also got great mileage out of joe pantoliano.

i guess my other gripe is that bracco's character became irrelevant by the 4th or 5th season. it seemed like they had to shove her in there for screen time, and i think they could have written her out of the show altogether without it suffering. i also didn't like how she suddenly wised up to tony and abandoned him with his kid's suicide attempt. it seem forced and out of character for her.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby JGJR » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:50 am

Like i've said several times, I need to re-watch this show, but I actually liked both the AJ/Blanca and Johnny Cakes/Vito storylines (especially the latter).
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby scannest » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:15 am

I remember watching at the time, week in and week out, and thinking they had lost the thread somewhere around seasons 4 & 5. But I didn't feel that way watching them again. It all makes sense - AJ and Blanca, that ridiculous fight Meadow and Finn have that ends with them getting engaged (I've had that very same late night/early morning fight more than once). Even Vito and Johnnycakes. Chris' constant fight to stay sober. It touched on so much and had some really profound things to say.
And Tony just resonates more for me than say, Walter. Tony's father was a mobster and Tony wasn't destined to much more. Could he have been a high school football coach? Maybe. But his life was pre-determined in so many ways. But Walter was a brilliant guy who's made just one stupid decision after another. I don't feel for Walter like I did for Tony, even when he did terrible things.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:24 pm

I think the episode where Johnny Sack takes a hit out on Ralphie is probably the most thought-provoking and touching treatment of obesity that I've ever seen on television.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby drew » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:39 pm

I love The Sopranos but I think they lost their way when Tony's mother died...in real life. The show was built around that dynamic & when she passed he had to re-write the show into something different & focus on minor characters. I'm friends with the guy who played Patsy Parisi, he sure got his shot in those later seasons.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby scannest » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:11 pm

drew wrote:I love The Sopranos but I think they lost their way when Tony's mother died...in real life. The show was built around that dynamic & when she passed he had to re-write the show into something different & focus on minor characters. I'm friends with the guy who played Patsy Parisi, he sure got his shot in those later seasons.

I had forgotten the whole plot with Meadow dating his son at the end. That terrible dinner party where his wife fucks up that joke... :)
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby scannest » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:12 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:I think the episode where Johnny Sack takes a hit out on Ralphie is probably the most thought-provoking and touching treatment of obesity that I've ever seen on television.

THIS
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby JGJR » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:26 am

scannest wrote:And Tony just resonates more for me than say, Walter. Tony's father was a mobster and Tony wasn't destined to much more. Could he have been a high school football coach? Maybe. But his life was pre-determined in so many ways. But Walter was a brilliant guy who's made just one stupid decision after another. I don't feel for Walter like I did for Tony, even when he did terrible things.


I think that ultimately, this is why I like Mad Men and especially Breaking Bad way more than The Sopranos. I can't relate at all to a mobster who is in the family business, but I sure as the sun comes up can relate to a underemployed, overqualified high school chemistry teacher. As I told Greg last night when we were talking about this thread and the BB one, Tony always was a bully from his school days while for Walter my guess would be the opposite given that he's a brilliant scientist who comes from modest means (unlike Gretchen).
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby yourenotevil » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:07 pm

drew wrote:I love The Sopranos but I think they lost their way when Tony's mother died...in real life. The show was built around that dynamic & when she passed he had to re-write the show into something different & focus on minor characters. I'm friends with the guy who played Patsy Parisi, he sure got his shot in those later seasons.


they were going to have her testify against tony at a trial right? i think i read that somewhere. sucked she died, but i think the show went in a better direction.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby yourenotevil » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:25 pm

JGJR wrote:
scannest wrote:And Tony just resonates more for me than say, Walter. Tony's father was a mobster and Tony wasn't destined to much more. Could he have been a high school football coach? Maybe. But his life was pre-determined in so many ways. But Walter was a brilliant guy who's made just one stupid decision after another. I don't feel for Walter like I did for Tony, even when he did terrible things.


I think that ultimately, this is why I like Mad Men and especially Breaking Bad way more than The Sopranos. I can't relate at all to a mobster who is in the family business, but I sure as the sun comes up can relate to a underemployed, overqualified high school chemistry teacher. As I told Greg last night when we were talking about this thread and the BB one, Tony always was a bully from his school days while for Walter my guess would be the opposite given that he's a brilliant scientist who comes from modest means (unlike Gretchen).



i think the sopranos(at least initially) was more about the family dynamic and dealing with mental health in the setting of the mafia, which at that time was a pretty innovative concept for television/film. i don't think tony was supposed to be an everyman, but i think he had some of those aspects that appealed to wide variety of people. i think he was meant to be an empathetic character at all times and was written that way. he did all of these violent things, but you put that aside and were still rooting for him.

i haven't read a lot of interviews with the creators/writers of BB, as I try to avoid those because they usually have spoilers in them. anyway, my take on what they were trying to do was make a very sympathetic character into someone you would actually want to see die or brought to justice by the show's end. most people i know were rooting for hank or jesse to win out by the season's end, not walt.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby JGJR » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:52 pm

yourenotevil wrote:i haven't read a lot of interviews with the creators/writers of BB, as I try to avoid those because they usually have spoilers in them. anyway, my take on what they were trying to do was make a very sympathetic character into someone you would actually want to see die or brought to justice by the show's end. most people i know were rooting for hank or jesse to win out by the season's end, not walt.


This should be in the BB thread so I will move the discussion over there.
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Re: The Sopranos

Postby yourenotevil » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:53 am

JGJR wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:i haven't read a lot of interviews with the creators/writers of BB, as I try to avoid those because they usually have spoilers in them. anyway, my take on what they were trying to do was make a very sympathetic character into someone you would actually want to see die or brought to justice by the show's end. most people i know were rooting for hank or jesse to win out by the season's end, not walt.


This should be in the BB thread so I will move the discussion over there.


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