DC or NYC hardcore '85-'90

[Welly]

Well, it´s all punk in the end!

But, what about DC vs DC?
I still think that Battery is better hardcore than Beefeater.

'Hardcore' as in the modern stylistic straitjacket definition? Well, then probably, if you like that kind of thing.

[The Snake]

Well, it´s all punk in the end!

But, what about DC vs DC?
I still think that Battery is better hardcore than Beefeater.

'Hardcore' as in the modern stylistic straitjacket definition? Well, then probably, if you like that kind of thing.

Yeah, it´s all about finger pointing, champion sweatshirts, college jackets and nikes.

[Chris Shary]

Am I the only one who read this as DC (music) VS NY Hardcore (not as DC hardcore VS NY hardcore)?

[version sound]

Well, it´s all punk in the end!

But, what about DC vs DC?
I still think that Battery is better hardcore than Beefeater.

No. Beefeater did solid hardcore when they wanted to. Beefeater and King Face are two of the most underrated bands of that era.

[version sound]

Am I the only one who read this as DC (music) VS NY Hardcore (not as DC hardcore VS NY hardcore)?

Well, Clash has previously expressed his distaste for many of the bands I listed, and DC punk in general, so I read it as "That shit I hate vs. The shit I love", regardless of the exact wording.

[patient_ot]

That's a big old pile of meh.

well, i grew up with it. seeing the bands, buying the demos as they came out. it was my intro to HC
just because you're like 100 years old, no need to knock anything that isn't Victim in Pain

I think "what you grow up with" has a bigger impact on tastes for this kind of thing than anything else. I think your list kind of illustrates the point I made earlier about NYC's legacy not being well preserved. I'm only in my 30s, so half of the stuff on your list (esp. demo type bands) would've never been accessible to me at the time when I was most interested in listening to hardcore and very little else (i.e. age 16 or 17). Hearing a Krakdown demo for the first time right now isn't going to blow me away at this point. But as a teenager, albums by the big name NY bands (that were in-print at the time) I could buy at the local record store, and those had an impact on me at the time, even if I was hearing them years after they were originally released.

I will say that for my own personal tastes, DC music from 85-90 gets put on way more often these days than any NYHC.

[patient_ot]

I liked Token Entry when G.I. played with them.

John, look for Token Entry's "Jaybird" album on youtube or whatever...it's a good one.

[version sound]

Yup. "Better" almost always comes down to "the stuff that I was really into when I was really into that kind of thing".

[The Snake]

OK, after all the talk about what´s better, here are the DC bands from 85 - 90 I´m into:
DAG NASTY, EMBRACE, RITES OF SPRING, IGNITION, FUGAZI, GRAY MATTER and I´m probably forgetting a bunch more.

[lewdd]

Yup. "Better" almost always comes down to "the stuff that I was really into when I was really into that kind of thing".

I agree. I think this is the problem I have with getting into older bands now that I didn't listen to when they first released their stuff (i.e. Poison Idea).

[Stormy]

It's called opinions.
The thread said "hardcore", so i rattled off a list of NY hardcore, not a list of emo, post-HC, rock, indie, whatever... i mean, Shudder to Think and Rain should be NOWHERE near a HC thread.
Anyway, i'll stick with my opinion, without calling anyone else's absurd.

No offense, but this is complete bullshit. Your mind has been poisoned by genrefication. Show me a reference to there being such a thing as "post-hardcore" that comes from before 1990. You do highlight why DC was always better than NYC though, and that's diversity. People were actually doing something new, instead of rehashing the same old shit with a stupid tough guy veneer. Maybe the Cro Mags were "from the streets", but I'm not, and I bet you aren't either, so why wallow in that shit? It meant nothing to me and said nothing to me.

I don't care about "the streets", or any of that crap, just good HC music to my ears. Do you really not think NY was diverse, or are you just pulling my leg here. I mean, my poisoned mind is just naming strictly hardcore bands. If i wanted to go all over the map like you did, it would be pretty easy (pre-'85 would be MUCH easier obviously). In the end though, who cares? Why is it always a contest? I like every band from both our lists and will continue to spin them all til forever.

Yup. "Better" almost always comes down to "the stuff that I was really into when I was really into that kind of thing".

It doesn't come down to "better" when talking about stuff you grew up with, just personal preference. Both NY and DC ruled in that time period. For me i just think NY had MORE bands that i liked than DC. Simple as that? Why can't you simply accept another's opinion on something as trivial as this?

[version sound]

In the end though, who cares? Why is it always a contest?

Why can't you simply accept another's opinion on something as trivial as this?

Ahem...

In the end, it's all a matter of opinion anyway, so bickering about it is pretty pointless.

[clash77]

Can we all agree( including Stabby) that GI were no longer a HC band at this time??..More "Fashionite" type material would have been nice but not to be..This was the time that DC became irrelevant..Cmon boys, lets be honest..

[rawpowerNZ]

Mr Clash77. If you want to change topic and talk about the greatest Post-H/C LP of that era? Well, I would nominate the criminally underrated Government Issue-You LP. That LP is totally flawless and has one of the greatest rhythm sections.

[Stormy]

In the end though, who cares? Why is it always a contest?

Why can't you simply accept another's opinion on something as trivial as this?

Ahem...

In the end, it's all a matter of opinion anyway, so bickering about it is pretty pointless.

so why couldn't this silliness have stopped right there?

[yourenotevil]

In the end though, who cares? Why is it always a contest?

Why can't you simply accept another's opinion on something as trivial as this?

Ahem...

In the end, it's all a matter of opinion anyway, so bickering about it is pretty pointless.

so why couldn't this silliness have stopped right there?

welcome to da internet.

[Welly]

Presented without comment.

[JGJR]

I think "what you grow up with" has a bigger impact on tastes for this kind of thing than anything else. I think your list kind of illustrates the point I made earlier about NYC's legacy not being well preserved. I'm only in my 30s, so half of the stuff on your list (esp. demo type bands) would've never been accessible to me at the time when I was most interested in listening to hardcore and very little else (i.e. age 16 or 17). Hearing a Krakdown demo for the first time right now isn't going to blow me away at this point. But as a teenager, albums by the big name NY bands (that were in-print at the time) I could buy at the local record store, and those had an impact on me at the time, even if I was hearing them years after they were originally released.

I will say that for my own personal tastes, DC music from 85-90 gets put on way more often these days than any NYHC.

Very well said. I couldn't agree more with all of that. My experience is very similar to yours.

[JGJR]

I liked Token Entry when G.I. played with them.

John, look for Token Entry's "Jaybird" album on youtube or whatever...it's a good one.

Indeed and From Beneath the Streets is even better. It's too bad that one and Ready or Not (the 7" they did with Anthony, later in Raw Deal/Killing Time, on vocals) have been OOP for so long aside from Go-Kart's reissue of FBTS in the late '90s.

[version sound]

In the end though, who cares? Why is it always a contest?

Why can't you simply accept another's opinion on something as trivial as this?

Ahem...

In the end, it's all a matter of opinion anyway, so bickering about it is pretty pointless.

so why couldn't this silliness have stopped right there?

Because no one else cared to stop arguing. In the end, isn't this kind of thread intended to be a platform for arguments? I have no problem with someone liking something different than what I like. Arguing about it is purely about entertainment to me. I certainly don't take it personally or intend for anyone else to.

[JGJR]

Mr Clash77. If you want to change topic and talk about the greatest Post-H/C LP of that era? Well, I would nominate the criminally underrated Government Issue-You LP. That LP is totally flawless and has one of the greatest rhythm sections.

rawpowerNZ is clearly lobbying for the title of my favorite poster. Well said.

[JGJR]

Presented without comment.

I don't know who Ray and Porcell are with here (maybe Bobby Liebling from Pentagram?), but they were huge collectors of all punk/hardcore and were big GG Allin fans, apparently.

[Stormy]

In the end though, who cares? Why is it always a contest?

Why can't you simply accept another's opinion on something as trivial as this?

Ahem...

In the end, it's all a matter of opinion anyway, so bickering about it is pretty pointless.

so why couldn't this silliness have stopped right there?

Because no one else cared to stop arguing. In the end, isn't this kind of thread intended to be a platform for arguments? I have no problem with someone liking something different than what I like. Arguing about it is purely about entertainment to me. I certainly don't take it personally or intend for anyone else to.

True. I'll admit it's fun to bicker and go on and on about Static Age vs. Walk Among Us or whatever. I certainly don't take anything personally either. Actually, looking back on the thread, it looks like almost a 50/50 split. Maybe 60/40 in favor of DC. Cool. I love all of it anyways.
Retarded blanket statements like this however we don't need:

To even remotely think NY wins this is absurd.

If you take out the Youth Crew type stuff (which some might argue isn't really NYHC) you end up with a bunch of bands that only recorded demos or maybe one 7'', aside from the obvious big name bands. A lot of the "big name" stuff hasn't been kept in print or been properly preserved either. Aside from the music (which is down to personal taste), I think has hurt NYC's legacy more than anything else. IMHO, it is pretty screwed up that you can't go into a store or online distro and buy a legit, in-print copy of Age of Quarrel or Don't Forget the Struggle right now...

Sorry, but this is a moot point, let's be real here. We're not talking about mainstream music. Does the fact that you can't walk into a store and buy Jan's Room, the Deep Wound demo, A Place in the Sun, any GISM album, The Hated '86 demo, the first Funeral Oration demo, the Septic Death 12", the Youth Korps ep, Mental Abuse LP, Neos, United Mutation, Negative Trend, NOTA, the Die Kreuzen ep, and hundreds of KBD type eps make them any less relevant or important. If you want something, in many cases, you have to do the legwork and seek it out. Hardcore has always gone way beyond distros and stores. I don't think it has hurt NY's legacy at all. Just the opposite in fact.

And some of my favorite recordings are from bands who have only recorded one or two eps, or even just demos.

[version sound]

Hey Stormy, can you make and upload a "best of NYHC 1985-1990" comp? Like 10-15 tracks of the best stuff. I'm always willing to give stuff another shot. Maybe it'll click this time...

[tango fistula]

Token Entry and Yuppicide were my fave NYC HC bands until the ABC-NO-RIO scene really got goin...TY broke up right around then. (1990-91?)

[Welly]

Presented without comment.

I don't know who Ray and Porcell are with here (maybe Bobby Liebling from Pentagram?), but they were huge collectors of all punk/hardcore and were big GG Allin fans, apparently.

Not sure if you were joking there or not.

[john stabb]

Thanks, rawpowerNZ & JGJR.

clash77, At that time period DC was more relevant (and a hotbed of musical talent) than anyplace on earth. G.I. may not have doing songs like "Fashionite" live but we could do a mean "Sheer Terror". We may have decided to keep experimenting as a band but we never stopped being a Punk group.

[Stormy]

Hey Stormy, can you make and upload a "best of NYHC 1985-1990" comp? Like 10-15 tracks of the best stuff. I'm always willing to give stuff another shot. Maybe it'll click this time...

no problem. just gimme a couple days

[patient_ot]

Sorry, but this is a moot point, let's be real here. We're not talking about mainstream music. Does the fact that you can't walk into a store and buy Jan's Room, the Deep Wound demo, A Place in the Sun, any GISM album, The Hated '86 demo, the first Funeral Oration demo, the Septic Death 12", the Youth Korps ep, Mental Abuse LP, Neos, United Mutation, Negative Trend, NOTA, the Die Kreuzen ep, and hundreds of KBD type eps make them any less relevant or important. If you want something, in many cases, you have to do the legwork and seek it out. Hardcore has always gone way beyond distros and stores. I don't think it has hurt NY's legacy at all. Just the opposite in fact.

And some of my favorite recordings are from bands who have only recorded one or two eps, or even just demos.

Stormy, we're gonna have to disagree somewhat here. From my point of view, it does matter, and definitely mattered when I was a teen and cared about no other music besides punk/hardcore. If the album wasn't at the local store for the older guys to recommend it, my option was to either order stuff that sounded cool out of a distro catalog (which carried the occasional old HC bootleg. Remember L&F records?), or get something via tape trade through the mail. The latter exposed me to some no so obvious stuff, but there were still things that were out of my reach. I'm sure people that were playing in bands outside of big scenes like NY/LA/DC had similar experiences. The amount of influence a lot of the bands you mentioned would have had in the pre-download/google/blog era would have probably been fairly negligible. Right now, I can see things being a little different...like some 16 year old kid might download an obscure thing from a blog and decides to form a band that imitates them or whatever. I can buy that.

[The Snake]

Not sure if this is off topic but speaking of DC and 1985 to 1990 period, can someone tell me more about the band Unrest where Chris Thompson played?

[Gary]

Wow,I never knew he was in Unrest,and I like a lot of his bands too. Never liked Unrest though.

[Stormy]

Sorry, but this is a moot point, let's be real here. We're not talking about mainstream music. Does the fact that you can't walk into a store and buy Jan's Room, the Deep Wound demo, A Place in the Sun, any GISM album, The Hated '86 demo, the first Funeral Oration demo, the Septic Death 12", the Youth Korps ep, Mental Abuse LP, Neos, United Mutation, Negative Trend, NOTA, the Die Kreuzen ep, and hundreds of KBD type eps make them any less relevant or important. If you want something, in many cases, you have to do the legwork and seek it out. Hardcore has always gone way beyond distros and stores. I don't think it has hurt NY's legacy at all. Just the opposite in fact.

And some of my favorite recordings are from bands who have only recorded one or two eps, or even just demos.

Stormy, we're gonna have to disagree somewhat here. From my point of view, it does matter, and definitely mattered when I was a teen and cared about no other music besides punk/hardcore. If the album wasn't at the local store for the older guys to recommend it, my option was to either order stuff that sounded cool out of a distro catalog (which carried the occasional old HC bootleg. Remember L&F records?), or get something via tape trade through the mail. The latter exposed me to some no so obvious stuff, but there were still things that were out of my reach. I'm sure people that were playing in bands outside of big scenes like NY/LA/DC had similar experiences. The amount of influence a lot of the bands you mentioned would have had in the pre-download/google/blog era would have probably been fairly negligible. Right now, I can see things being a little different...like some 16 year old kid might download an obscure thing from a blog and decides to form a band that imitates them or whatever. I can buy that.

Guess we had it differently had it differently. I would listen to Pat Duncan's radio show every Thursday (this was around '86 to '90) and discovered tons of NY bands, as well as tons of bands in general. If I heard something i liked i did whatever it took to get it. When i heard the SFA demos, i got Mike Bullshit's address from Bullshit Monthly and wrote him, and he sent me both demos he sang on plus a basement rehearsal and live set. Demos by bands like Altercation, NY Hoods and Breakdown i got through trading (using MRR), or by taking a trip into NYC from Jersey and hitting Bleeker Bob's which sometimes carried rare demos and eps. Zines helped a ton too. By the time a couple years passed i had just about every NYHC demo you could think of. For me it was just a matter of 'how bad do i want this'. Alot of this stuff is still hard to get, much of it never put onto vinyl or CD, which is why i started my blog.

[yourenotevil]

Sorry, but this is a moot point, let's be real here. We're not talking about mainstream music. Does the fact that you can't walk into a store and buy Jan's Room, the Deep Wound demo, A Place in the Sun, any GISM album, The Hated '86 demo, the first Funeral Oration demo, the Septic Death 12", the Youth Korps ep, Mental Abuse LP, Neos, United Mutation, Negative Trend, NOTA, the Die Kreuzen ep, and hundreds of KBD type eps make them any less relevant or important. If you want something, in many cases, you have to do the legwork and seek it out. Hardcore has always gone way beyond distros and stores. I don't think it has hurt NY's legacy at all. Just the opposite in fact.

And some of my favorite recordings are from bands who have only recorded one or two eps, or even just demos.

Stormy, we're gonna have to disagree somewhat here. From my point of view, it does matter, and definitely mattered when I was a teen and cared about no other music besides punk/hardcore. If the album wasn't at the local store for the older guys to recommend it, my option was to either order stuff that sounded cool out of a distro catalog (which carried the occasional old HC bootleg. Remember L&F records?), or get something via tape trade through the mail. The latter exposed me to some no so obvious stuff, but there were still things that were out of my reach. I'm sure people that were playing in bands outside of big scenes like NY/LA/DC had similar experiences. The amount of influence a lot of the bands you mentioned would have had in the pre-download/google/blog era would have probably been fairly negligible. Right now, I can see things being a little different...like some 16 year old kid might download an obscure thing from a blog and decides to form a band that imitates them or whatever. I can buy that.

Guess we had it differently had it differently. I would listen to Pat Duncan's radio show every Thursday (this was around '86 to '90) and discovered tons of NY bands, as well as tons of bands in general. If I heard something i liked i did whatever it took to get it. When i heard the SFA demos, i got Mike Bullshit's address from Bullshit Monthly and wrote him, and he sent me both demos he sang on plus a basement rehearsal and live set. Demos by bands like Altercation, NY Hoods and Breakdown i got through trading (using MRR), or by taking a trip into NYC from Jersey and hitting Bleeker Bob's which sometimes carried rare demos and eps. Zines helped a ton too. By the time a couple years passed i had just about every NYHC demo you could think of. For me it was just a matter of 'how bad do i want this'. Alot of this stuff is still hard to get, much of it never put onto vinyl or CD, which is why i started my blog.

i would have to be more into the ot side of this perspective here as far as difficulty in getting stuff, even though i had access to a fair amount of music growing up. there was a cool older punk guy who would bring in his records and tape them for me at the punk store he worked at. at the same time, he also to work and could only do that on a limited basis. i remember scoring a taped version of SSD kids and it was such a shitty nth generation dub i couldn't hear anything on it at all. i remember writing people in the DC scene for the rarer 7 inches to see if they could dub them for me, but if i got an answer it was usually a no. some people did it for me, and i also lost a bunch of tapes and postage sending it to people who would just never reply after they had said they would do it. this was in the mid 90s though, so i think most of the ppl i was hitting up were pretty beyond it at that point. it also just depended on where you grew up. in 95 no one in LA gave a fuck about leeway, murphy's law or the cro mags. unless you had a friend on the east coast or something, you just had to luck into that stuff for yourself.

[gregpolard]

Sorry, but this is a moot point, let's be real here. We're not talking about mainstream music. Does the fact that you can't walk into a store and buy Jan's Room, the Deep Wound demo, A Place in the Sun, any GISM album, The Hated '86 demo, the first Funeral Oration demo, the Septic Death 12", the Youth Korps ep, Mental Abuse LP, Neos, United Mutation, Negative Trend, NOTA, the Die Kreuzen ep, and hundreds of KBD type eps make them any less relevant or important. If you want something, in many cases, you have to do the legwork and seek it out. Hardcore has always gone way beyond distros and stores. I don't think it has hurt NY's legacy at all. Just the opposite in fact.

And some of my favorite recordings are from bands who have only recorded one or two eps, or even just demos.

Stormy, we're gonna have to disagree somewhat here. From my point of view, it does matter, and definitely mattered when I was a teen and cared about no other music besides punk/hardcore. If the album wasn't at the local store for the older guys to recommend it, my option was to either order stuff that sounded cool out of a distro catalog (which carried the occasional old HC bootleg. Remember L&F records?), or get something via tape trade through the mail. The latter exposed me to some no so obvious stuff, but there were still things that were out of my reach. I'm sure people that were playing in bands outside of big scenes like NY/LA/DC had similar experiences. The amount of influence a lot of the bands you mentioned would have had in the pre-download/google/blog era would have probably been fairly negligible. Right now, I can see things being a little different...like some 16 year old kid might download an obscure thing from a blog and decides to form a band that imitates them or whatever. I can buy that.

Guess we had it differently had it differently. I would listen to Pat Duncan's radio show every Thursday (this was around '86 to '90) and discovered tons of NY bands, as well as tons of bands in general. If I heard something i liked i did whatever it took to get it. When i heard the SFA demos, i got Mike Bullshit's address from Bullshit Monthly and wrote him, and he sent me both demos he sang on plus a basement rehearsal and live set. Demos by bands like Altercation, NY Hoods and Breakdown i got through trading (using MRR), or by taking a trip into NYC from Jersey and hitting Bleeker Bob's which sometimes carried rare demos and eps. Zines helped a ton too. By the time a couple years passed i had just about every NYHC demo you could think of. For me it was just a matter of 'how bad do i want this'. Alot of this stuff is still hard to get, much of it never put onto vinyl or CD, which is why i started my blog.

i would have to be more into the ot side of this perspective here as far as difficulty in getting stuff, even though i had access to a fair amount of music growing up. there was a cool older punk guy who would bring in his records and tape them for me at the punk store he worked at. at the same time, he also to work and could only do that on a limited basis. i remember scoring a taped version of SSD kids and it was such a shitty nth generation dub i couldn't hear anything on it at all. i remember writing people in the DC scene for the rarer 7 inches to see if they could dub them for me, but if i got an answer it was usually a no. some people did it for me, and i also lost a bunch of tapes and postage sending it to people who would just never reply after they had said they would do it. this was in the mid 90s though, so i think most of the ppl i was hitting up were pretty beyond it at that point. it also just depended on where you grew up. in 95 no one in LA gave a fuck about leeway, murphy's law or the cro mags. unless you had a friend on the east coast or something, you just had to luck into that stuff for yourself.

hey, ee cummings. Hold down the “SHIFT” key when you hit a letter once in a while, you’ll be amazed at what happens!

[Welly]

Hold down the “SHIFT” key when you hit a letter once in a while, you’ll be amazed at what happens!

YOU TURN INTO RICK TA LIFE?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!!?!?

[gregpolard]

Hold down the “SHIFT” key when you hit a letter once in a while, you’ll be amazed at what happens!

YOU TURN INTO RICK TA LIFE?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!!?!?

yo yo
shits poppin in my distro,,,,,holidayz are comin
comin correct cds make great gifts for kids,,,,,and you’re woman two
nyhc
oi

[yourenotevil]

Sorry, but this is a moot point, let's be real here. We're not talking about mainstream music. Does the fact that you can't walk into a store and buy Jan's Room, the Deep Wound demo, A Place in the Sun, any GISM album, The Hated '86 demo, the first Funeral Oration demo, the Septic Death 12", the Youth Korps ep, Mental Abuse LP, Neos, United Mutation, Negative Trend, NOTA, the Die Kreuzen ep, and hundreds of KBD type eps make them any less relevant or important. If you want something, in many cases, you have to do the legwork and seek it out. Hardcore has always gone way beyond distros and stores. I don't think it has hurt NY's legacy at all. Just the opposite in fact.

And some of my favorite recordings are from bands who have only recorded one or two eps, or even just demos.

Stormy, we're gonna have to disagree somewhat here. From my point of view, it does matter, and definitely mattered when I was a teen and cared about no other music besides punk/hardcore. If the album wasn't at the local store for the older guys to recommend it, my option was to either order stuff that sounded cool out of a distro catalog (which carried the occasional old HC bootleg. Remember L&F records?), or get something via tape trade through the mail. The latter exposed me to some no so obvious stuff, but there were still things that were out of my reach. I'm sure people that were playing in bands outside of big scenes like NY/LA/DC had similar experiences. The amount of influence a lot of the bands you mentioned would have had in the pre-download/google/blog era would have probably been fairly negligible. Right now, I can see things being a little different...like some 16 year old kid might download an obscure thing from a blog and decides to form a band that imitates them or whatever. I can buy that.

Guess we had it differently had it differently. I would listen to Pat Duncan's radio show every Thursday (this was around '86 to '90) and discovered tons of NY bands, as well as tons of bands in general. If I heard something i liked i did whatever it took to get it. When i heard the SFA demos, i got Mike Bullshit's address from Bullshit Monthly and wrote him, and he sent me both demos he sang on plus a basement rehearsal and live set. Demos by bands like Altercation, NY Hoods and Breakdown i got through trading (using MRR), or by taking a trip into NYC from Jersey and hitting Bleeker Bob's which sometimes carried rare demos and eps. Zines helped a ton too. By the time a couple years passed i had just about every NYHC demo you could think of. For me it was just a matter of 'how bad do i want this'. Alot of this stuff is still hard to get, much of it never put onto vinyl or CD, which is why i started my blog.

i would have to be more into the ot side of this perspective here as far as difficulty in getting stuff, even though i had access to a fair amount of music growing up. there was a cool older punk guy who would bring in his records and tape them for me at the punk store he worked at. at the same time, he also to work and could only do that on a limited basis. i remember scoring a taped version of SSD kids and it was such a shitty nth generation dub i couldn't hear anything on it at all. i remember writing people in the DC scene for the rarer 7 inches to see if they could dub them for me, but if i got an answer it was usually a no. some people did it for me, and i also lost a bunch of tapes and postage sending it to people who would just never reply after they had said they would do it. this was in the mid 90s though, so i think most of the ppl i was hitting up were pretty beyond it at that point. it also just depended on where you grew up. in 95 no one in LA gave a fuck about leeway, murphy's law or the cro mags. unless you had a friend on the east coast or something, you just had to luck into that stuff for yourself.

hey, ee cummings. Hold down the “SHIFT” key when you hit a letter once in a while, you’ll be amazed at what happens!

i hope that dunkin donuts coffee burns your nads off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jason powell]

Bad Brains, Dag, GI, Scream, Marginal Man, Swiz, Embrace, Fugazi, Ignition, and Soul Side

vs

Bad Brains, Agnostic Front, Murphy's Law, Cro-Mags, Raw Deal, SOIA, Straight Ahead, Token Entry, Sheer Terror, Gorilla Biscuits

I don't know guys, but I think the Bad Brains win this time.
But, seriously, I listened to all of it but for different reasons. At the time, there were good reasons to be inspired by all of it. Although I was never much into metal, I loved Metallica and Anthrax, and I was really into the new AF records at the time, as well as Cro-Mags, the Revelation comp bands. All of it was really fast, really raw and took a page (in my mind anyway) from that influence in a good way. Like, I know its not as classic hardcore as their first record, but when Suicidal put out "How Will I Laugh..." that was in my Walkman and blasting out my boom box for months over their first record because it was new and like, now (at the time). I didn't like the newer DRI records as much though (oddly enough).

On the other hand Dag Nasty was almost like a new kind of music, it had melodies that amped me up. Fugazi was like reggae/dub/gogo/hardcore, and I still thought of them as a hardcore band even though I would debate that with people who disagreed back then.

New York definitely had a heavier sound than DC, and DC definitely had a more progressive melodic vibe in the music than NYC. If hardcore means what sounds more thrashy, NYC could win, but I thought it was a mistake when people began saying things like "the Circle Jerks aren't really a hardcore band"

OTOH, some DC bands kinda made it easy to say that they weren't hardcore when it seemed as if t here was a definite effort made by some of them to separate themselves and divide the scene.

[JGJR]

Presented without comment.

I don't know who Ray and Porcell are with here (maybe Bobby Liebling from Pentagram?), but they were huge collectors of all punk/hardcore and were big GG Allin fans, apparently.

Not sure if you were joking there or not.

Actually, I wasn't, but now I realize that it was indeed GG. He just looked so much like Bobby in that photo, though.

[JGJR]

Wow,I never knew he was in Unrest,and I like a lot of his bands too. Never liked Unrest though.

I do like Unrest, but I had no clue. You mean Chris Thomson of Ignition, Fury, Circus Lupus, etc. right?

[JGJR]

Sorry, but this is a moot point, let's be real here. We're not talking about mainstream music. Does the fact that you can't walk into a store and buy Jan's Room, the Deep Wound demo, A Place in the Sun, any GISM album, The Hated '86 demo, the first Funeral Oration demo, the Septic Death 12", the Youth Korps ep, Mental Abuse LP, Neos, United Mutation, Negative Trend, NOTA, the Die Kreuzen ep, and hundreds of KBD type eps make them any less relevant or important. If you want something, in many cases, you have to do the legwork and seek it out. Hardcore has always gone way beyond distros and stores. I don't think it has hurt NY's legacy at all. Just the opposite in fact.

And some of my favorite recordings are from bands who have only recorded one or two eps, or even just demos.

Stormy, we're gonna have to disagree somewhat here. From my point of view, it does matter, and definitely mattered when I was a teen and cared about no other music besides punk/hardcore. If the album wasn't at the local store for the older guys to recommend it, my option was to either order stuff that sounded cool out of a distro catalog (which carried the occasional old HC bootleg. Remember L&F records?), or get something via tape trade through the mail. The latter exposed me to some no so obvious stuff, but there were still things that were out of my reach. I'm sure people that were playing in bands outside of big scenes like NY/LA/DC had similar experiences. The amount of influence a lot of the bands you mentioned would have had in the pre-download/google/blog era would have probably been fairly negligible. Right now, I can see things being a little different...like some 16 year old kid might download an obscure thing from a blog and decides to form a band that imitates them or whatever. I can buy that.

Guess we had it differently had it differently. I would listen to Pat Duncan's radio show every Thursday (this was around '86 to '90) and discovered tons of NY bands, as well as tons of bands in general. If I heard something i liked i did whatever it took to get it. When i heard the SFA demos, i got Mike Bullshit's address from Bullshit Monthly and wrote him, and he sent me both demos he sang on plus a basement rehearsal and live set. Demos by bands like Altercation, NY Hoods and Breakdown i got through trading (using MRR), or by taking a trip into NYC from Jersey and hitting Bleeker Bob's which sometimes carried rare demos and eps. Zines helped a ton too. By the time a couple years passed i had just about every NYHC demo you could think of. For me it was just a matter of 'how bad do i want this'. Alot of this stuff is still hard to get, much of it never put onto vinyl or CD, which is why i started my blog.

I just wanted to add that starting in '91, I'd also listen to Pat Duncan's show pretty regularly though it was much more static-y in central NJ as opposed to northern NJ where I first discovered it. Still, I discovered tons of stuff that way and his live sets were so great. I did a lot of writing and sent out for lots of stuff via MRR around that time, too.

[JGJR]

Hold down the “SHIFT” key when you hit a letter once in a while, you’ll be amazed at what happens!

YOU TURN INTO RICK TA LIFE?!?!?!!?!?!!?!?!!?!?

yo yo
shits poppin in my distro,,,,,holidayz are comin
comin correct cds make great gifts for kids,,,,,and you’re woman two
nyhc
oi

I almost fell of my chair laughing so hard.

[The Snake]

Wow,I never knew he was in Unrest,and I like a lot of his bands too. Never liked Unrest though.

I do like Unrest, but I had no clue. You mean Chris Thomson of Ignition, Fury, Circus Lupus, etc. right?

Yeah, he played on one Unrest album, I think that on Think of S. E.

[john stabb]

It amazes me that to this day, folks are still really worked up about who was better in hardcore: DC vs NY.





















BUT dc still wins.

[clash77]

Thanks, rawpowerNZ & JGJR.

clash77, At that time period DC was more relevant (and a hotbed of musical talent) than anyplace on earth. G.I. may not have doing songs like "Fashionite" live but we could do a mean "Sheer Terror". We may have decided to keep experimenting as a band but we never stopped being a Punk group.

..Sorry John, But my idea of HC and what GI was doing at the time('85-'86l) were/are 2 different things.No offen
Se intended ..please!!..I like what I like and I know what I know,Do you think I' m wrong ??

[john stabb]

Oh, it's cool, clash77. I'm not in the least offended. You and I have different thoughts on hardcore. I think that (as much as G.I. was trying to challenge ourselves so we didn't feel stuck in a musical rut) - we still had some hardcore in our veins. Certainly not like the Legless Bull bang & howl or the Make an Effort crash & burn stuff we were making. Hell, it's nothing like the TSOL/BB - influenced sounds of hardcore we were doing during Boycott Stabb. But I would consider songs such as "They Know", "Hear the Scream", "It begins Now", "Hole in the Scene", "Even when you're here" "Better than TV" To be very hardcore.

And I'm thrilled to say G.I. never did the Metal crossover. We could never get away from always being a Punk band and have hardcore rolling around inside us somewhere, too.

You're not wrong in what you feel.

[clash77]

While they were sleeping in Dc( from boredom), NYC was thriving !!!!!!

[Michele]

must go with DC... loved some of the NY stuff, but my all time hc faves lies in DC

[version sound]

Theoretically, this is a board devoted to a DC hardcore band. It would be weird if most people here preferred NYHC. Isn't there a board for that somewhere?

[lewdd]

Theoretically, this is a board devoted to a DC hardcore band. It would be weird if most people here preferred NYHC. Isn't there a board for that somewhere?

www.toughguyharcore.com