version sound wrote:DC. Duh. Some of the best punk/hardcore ever fucking made. NYHC was already done by 1985. Confirmed New Yorker Midge F. Lightweight agrees with me, so that's pretty definitive.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
version sound wrote:I like the Cro Mags, but classic NYHC pretty much ended with Victim in Pain, IMO. I do L)OVE that first Crumbsuckers record, though.
Chris Shary wrote:DC.
The Snake wrote:NYC totally!
DC had lots of great post hc/punk bands, but the hardcore was in NYC at the time.
I love Embrace, Ignition and few others but Beefeater and such, c´mon!
Straight Ahead alone is better then most of the DC stuff from 85 - 90.
clash77 wrote:version sound wrote:I like the Cro Mags, but classic NYHC pretty much ended with Victim in Pain, IMO. I do L)OVE that first Crumbsuckers record, though.
LOD was a great record, the follow up..yikes!!..The Krackdown( or Krakdown) stuff( Notaro) good also..One more LI band Ludachrist, also worth mentioning..
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
The Snake wrote:I don´t think that clash77 meant post hardcore when he opened this thread, but maybe I´ wrong.
DC bands mentioned here are great bands (well, some more, some less), but saying that Beefeater or Shudder To Think are better hardcore bands than Straight Ahead is just plain silly.
You could say that you like James Brown more than some hardcore bands, but that still doesn´t make James Brown hardcore.
version sound wrote:The Snake wrote:I don´t think that clash77 meant post hardcore when he opened this thread, but maybe I´ wrong.
DC bands mentioned here are great bands (well, some more, some less), but saying that Beefeater or Shudder To Think are better hardcore bands than Straight Ahead is just plain silly.
You could say that you like James Brown more than some hardcore bands, but that still doesn´t make James Brown hardcore.
In 1985-1990, there was no such genre as "post-hardcore". If you want to get picky about it, a lot of NYHC was more metalcore or crossover than straight HC. Based on previous posts, I think C77 most definitely meant to include all those bands.
greg wrote:I know people on here want to deny it, but AOQ is a flawless LP. Best Wishes is ok but it's a metal record. After that, aside from the occasional riff or two, I don't care.
The Snake wrote:Well, when I talk about NYC hardcore from 85-90 I don´t mean crossover bands.
YOT, Straight Ahead, Crippled Youth/Bold, Project X, Judge, Gorilla Biscuits, Side By Side, Life´s Blood, Citizens Arrest... All hardcore.
xxxMidgexxx wrote:But perhaps I just love drone stuff in general.
version sound wrote:The Snake wrote:Well, when I talk about NYC hardcore from 85-90 I don´t mean crossover bands.
YOT, Straight Ahead, Crippled Youth/Bold, Project X, Judge, Gorilla Biscuits, Side By Side, Life´s Blood, Citizens Arrest... All hardcore.
So, Agnostic Front post-VIP, Crumbsuckers, Cro Mags, etc... weren't NYHC? I think that's really splitting hairs.
Likewise, no one called anything "post-hardcore" in the '80s. That's pure historical revision. At most, those bands were considered "emotional hardcore", a tag they all rejected. I think those of us buying the records considered it all hardcore. I know I did.
Welly wrote:matt wrote:WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?!?
Music.
Chris Shary wrote:Funny how opinions typically lead to arguments. I'm not out to change anyone's mind about any form of music. I'm just a fan.
version sound wrote:The Snake wrote:NYC totally!
DC had lots of great post hc/punk bands, but the hardcore was in NYC at the time.
I love Embrace, Ignition and few others but Beefeater and such, c´mon!
Straight Ahead alone is better then most of the DC stuff from 85 - 90.
Dag Nasty
Rites of Spring
One Last Wish
Embrace
Nation of Ulysses
Shudder to Think
Gray Matter
Scream
Swiz
Ignition
Beefeater
Soul Side
Mission Impossible
United Mutations
Black Market Baby
3
Rain
Marginal Man
Crippled Pilgrims
King Face
Fugazi
version sound wrote:That's a big old pile of meh.
Stormy wrote:version sound wrote:That's a big old pile of meh.
well, i grew up with it. seeing the bands, buying the demos as they came out. it was my intro to HC
just because you're like 100 years old, no need to knock anything that isn't Victim in Pain
yourenotevil wrote:Stormy wrote:version sound wrote:That's a big old pile of meh.
well, i grew up with it. seeing the bands, buying the demos as they came out. it was my intro to HC
just because you're like 100 years old, no need to knock anything that isn't Victim in Pain
ha, i think you dudes are actually the same age. i agree, just because this board checked out of hardcore in 85 or so doesn't make NYHC any less worthy of the praise it gets.
version sound wrote:yourenotevil wrote:Stormy wrote:version sound wrote:That's a big old pile of meh.
well, i grew up with it. seeing the bands, buying the demos as they came out. it was my intro to HC
just because you're like 100 years old, no need to knock anything that isn't Victim in Pain
ha, i think you dudes are actually the same age. i agree, just because this board checked out of hardcore in 85 or so doesn't make NYHC any less worthy of the praise it gets.
Not completely true, but I did check out of '82 style hardcore by 1985. There was way more interesting stuff to listen to that wasn't stuck 3 years in the past. In the end, it's all a matter of opinion anyway, so bickering about it is pretty pointless.
john stabb wrote:version sound wrote-
Dag Nasty
Rites of Spring
One Last Wish
Embrace
Nation of Ulysses
Shudder to Think
Gray Matter
Scream
Swiz
Ignition
Beefeater
Soul Side
Mission Impossible
United Mutations
Black Market Baby
3
Rain
Marginal Man
Crippled Pilgrims
King Face
Fugazi
I'm almost with you there but United Mutations were pretty psychedelic noisestuff, BMB were always a Punk band, Crippled Pilgrims were very Paisley Underground like Dream Syndicate, and Kingface are a Rock band with Punk influences. Sure I'm being picky but not hardcore. But what about that little band called G.I.
To even remotely think NY wins this is absurd.
Stormy wrote:It's called opinions.
The thread said "hardcore", so i rattled off a list of NY hardcore, not a list of emo, post-HC, rock, indie, whatever... i mean, Shudder to Think and Rain should be NOWHERE near a HC thread.
Anyway, i'll stick with my opinion, without calling anyone else's absurd.
The Snake wrote:I´m with Stormy on this one.
Maybe the term post hardcore was´t in the use in 80´s but Jawbox for example is not hardcore (and they are more the 90´s band after all). I´m a Jawbox fan but would never call it a hardcore band. I don´t think they (or some other mentioned bands in the thread) ever considered themselves as hardcore bands.
Welly wrote:The Snake wrote:I´m with Stormy on this one.
Maybe the term post hardcore was´t in the use in 80´s but Jawbox for example is not hardcore (and they are more the 90´s band after all). I´m a Jawbox fan but would never call it a hardcore band. I don´t think they (or some other mentioned bands in the thread) ever considered themselves as hardcore bands.
Everything being put in sub-sub-sub-sub-boxes is a relatively recent thing though.
The Snake wrote:[=
Yeah, I get that, but sometimes labels are necessary.
For example, if I listen some power pop bands, I won´t call them hardcore because they are power pop, it is simple as that.
Welly wrote:Present day 'label' overkill is not really necessary though, that's the point. It's just a symptom of a lot of people these days not having a hope of grasping the histories and discographies of vast music styles and scenes, so carving out smaller niches they can be experts on.
That's pretty much it though right? Everyone's an 'expert' on something now. Bit like how everyone's a fucking 'artiste' as well.
Right, better get back to my 'post-hardcore' photography project that I'm bespoke printing onto old driftwood. Keep an eye out for the exhibition and book tour.
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