Born Against

[Welly]

my point was i think he can let snake reprint the zine interview.

My favourite part of this argument is if Mr. Pliskin did indeed re-run said interview, not only would Mr. Clark Kent probably never find out about it, if he did it'd be doubtful he'd ever do anything about it, and even if he did, there would be very little that would actually happen.

P.S. The internet is shit. If we met at a gig, most people would get on.

[yourenotevil]

my point was i think he can let snake reprint the zine interview.

My favourite part of this argument is if Mr. Pliskin did indeed re-run said interview, not only would Mr. Clark Kent probably never find out about it, if he did it'd be doubtful he'd ever do anything about it, and even if he did, there would be very little that would actually happen.

P.S. The internet is shit. If we met at a gig, most people would get on.

haha. i agree. so much animosity over certain topics gets ridiculous. at this point i know what certain ppl are going to post in a thread before i even read what they have written.

[Welly]

Ah, it's just a bunch of old men blowing off/steam.

A wise poster once said "you never win an argument here."

Speak for yourself.

Having pretty much no-one engage or respond to your posts is winning an argument right?

[77clash]

this is great enterntainment

[The Snake]

Hey, I didn´t want to stir that much of a fuss with just one sentence.
I agree with Welly about that we´d all get along if we meet on some show. It´s a proven fact.
I also agree with youarenotevil about criticism, it is hc/punk, if there is no criticism, then all of this is just a rock and roll music, right?
I don´t know Kent personally but I have been following his zines and writings from the mid 90´s and I actually have nothing but respect for the guy. Still, I don´t agree with everything he wrote, said or did.
As for Born Against interview, i also agree with Welly that if I did print it in my zine, Kent would probably never find out about it.
But, I didn´t want to be a dick and do it like that, so I´ve asked him and he said no and OK. But, if i did print it, more people would know about that great interview and about No Answers and who knows, maybe then someone would actually decide to order No Answers # 10.
Also, from my point of view as a zine maker, if someone asked me about using any material from my zine, I would´t have nothing against it as long as it is credited where the stuff is from originally. So, I think that it was kind of strange move by Kent not letting me using the Born Against interview, but hey, it is/was his zine and his choice (which we all can criticize, right?).
That´s my two cents.
Born Against - a great band.

[Welly]

Agreed, but...

So, I think that it was kind of strange move by Kent not letting me using the Born Against interview.

We're all weirdos, that's why we (hopefully) got into punk rock in the first place right?

[Welly]

Rise Against > Born Against

So wrong.

And you think I don't like punk rock? Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence is at hand here.

Shoot me for liking early Fat, Hellcat, and Epitaph stuff.

That stuff (by and large) just isn't my bag.

What did you listen to in the 90's JGJR?

Still waiting...

[The Snake]

Agreed, but...

So, I think that it was kind of strange move by Kent not letting me using the Born Against interview.

We're all weirdos, that's why we (hopefully) got into punk rock in the first place right?

Probably yes.

[gregpolard]

Rise Against > Born Against

So wrong.

And you think I don't like punk rock? Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence is at hand here.

Shoot me for liking early Fat, Hellcat, and Epitaph stuff.

That stuff (by and large) just isn't my bag.

What did you listen to in the 90's JGJR?

Still waiting...

Be patient. He's currently going through documents to find a list of every record he purchased from 1-1-1990 to 12-31-99. lol

[JGJR]

Rise Against > Born Against

So wrong.

And you think I don't like punk rock? Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence is at hand here.

Shoot me for liking early Fat, Hellcat, and Epitaph stuff.

That stuff (by and large) just isn't my bag.

You had a choice at that time to listen to tough guy straight edge hardcore or FHE. I picked the latter and have been happy since then. I brought me back to the old school punk that I listened to many years before.

I chose neither.

Seriously, your timeline is a bit off. The peak of the sXe stuff was in the late '80s and Epitaph didn't start getting really popular until the early '90s. Fat and Hellcat didn't even exist until then.

[JGJR]

Rise Against > Born Against

So wrong.

And you think I don't like punk rock? Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence is at hand here.

Shoot me for liking early Fat, Hellcat, and Epitaph stuff.

That stuff (by and large) just isn't my bag.

What did you listen to in the 90's JGJR?

First half of the '90s - all manners of punk and hardcore then current but a lot of older stuff from the '70s and '80s, mostly but not exclusively, along with some new-wave, post-punk, classic rock, indie rock, etc. think SST, Dischord, Touch and Go, UK punk, what is called KBD punk now, et al. I read MRR every month.

Second half of the '90s - got deeply into Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, Graham Parker, The Jam, later Clash, Pogues, Gang of Four, et al. (so basically the roots of the stuff I was listening to in the first half of the '90s) and started to drift away from the HC/punk scene but kept one foot in it and still went to shows occasionally. I also got heavily into (mostly) British indie-type stuff (Radiohead, Belle and Sebastian, et al.) and delved into soul, hip-hop, got back into classic rock a bit, etc.

[JGJR]

Lets talk about an awesome band led by an awesome positive dude... Rorschach.

Word. Charles is great.

[lewdd]

Rise Against > Born Against

So wrong.

And you think I don't like punk rock? Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence is at hand here.

Shoot me for liking early Fat, Hellcat, and Epitaph stuff.

That stuff (by and large) just isn't my bag.

You had a choice at that time to listen to tough guy straight edge hardcore or FHE. I picked the latter and have been happy since then. I brought me back to the old school punk that I listened to many years before.

I chose neither.

Seriously, your timeline is a bit off. The peak of the sXe stuff was in the late '80s and Epitaph didn't start getting really popular until the early '90s. Fat and Hellcat didn't even exist until then.

Looks like Born Against was releasing their albums at about the same time as Epitaph and Fat were getting popular.

[JGJR]

Rise Against > Born Against

So wrong.

And you think I don't like punk rock? Ladies and gentlemen, the evidence is at hand here.

Shoot me for liking early Fat, Hellcat, and Epitaph stuff.

That stuff (by and large) just isn't my bag.

You had a choice at that time to listen to tough guy straight edge hardcore or FHE. I picked the latter and have been happy since then. I brought me back to the old school punk that I listened to many years before.

I chose neither.

Seriously, your timeline is a bit off. The peak of the sXe stuff was in the late '80s and Epitaph didn't start getting really popular until the early '90s. Fat and Hellcat didn't even exist until then.

Looks like Born Against was releasing their albums at about the same time as Epitaph and Fat were getting popular.

That's true, but if you think they were "tough guy straight edge hardcore" then you have clearly never listened to them. They and other bands like them (Rorschach, Citzens Arrest, Go!, etc.) were reactions against that sort of stuff. If anything brought back the spirit of early '80s hardcore, it was bands of that sort, etc. The Epitaph and Fat bands just homogenized the sounds of the far greater '80s SoCal bands.

[lewdd]

You are right. I listened to Rorschach, Born Against, Quicksand, etc. probably one time each because they were in a Spin magazine greatest punk album list many years ago. I decided that I liked that stuff as much as I like Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, etc.

[JGJR]

You are right. I listened to Rorschach, Born Against, Quicksand, etc. probably one time each because they were in a Spin magazine greatest punk album list many years ago. I decided that I liked that stuff as much as I like Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, etc.

Which is to say, not at all? Personally I love most of those bands. I was never a YoT fan at all really aside from the great last 7" and their tracks on The Way It Is. I'm a latecomer to Quicksand, but I'd say I like more than love them. They were great live last year, though. I love Rorschach, Born Against and GB, though.

[Welly]

First half of the '90s - all manners of punk and hardcore then current but a lot of older stuff from the '70s and '80s, mostly but not exclusively, along with some new-wave, post-punk, classic rock, indie rock, etc. think SST, Dischord, Touch and Go, UK punk, what is called KBD punk now, et al. I read MRR every month.

Second half of the '90s - got deeply into Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, Graham Parker, The Jam, later Clash, Pogues, Gang of Four, et al. (so basically the roots of the stuff I was listening to in the first half of the '90s) and started to drift away from the HC/punk scene but kept one foot in it and still went to shows occasionally. I also got heavily into (mostly) British indie-type stuff (Radiohead, Belle and Sebastian, et al.) and delved into soul, hip-hop, got back into classic rock a bit, etc.

So everything then.

[Welly]

You had a choice at that time to listen to tough guy straight edge hardcore or FHE. I picked the latter and have been happy since then. I brought me back to the old school punk that I listened to many years before.

Seriously, your timeline is a bit off. The peak of the sXe stuff was in the late '80s and Epitaph didn't start getting really popular until the early '90s. Fat and Hellcat didn't even exist until then.

He's not off (although I can smell something, maybe it's smoked meat). You should remember, the 90's was full of chug-chug-skwee hardcore metal. This was what 'hardcore' basically morphed into after the 80's 'straight edge' stuff until about 2000, when some new/old hardcore finally got a fucking clue again and the 90's hardcore metal crowd suddenly needed glasses, a backpack and a calculator to write eight minute 'songs'. Yes, I am generalising.

Aside from that, you should also remember, that after the fake 'grunge' trend, the perception of what 'punk rock' was in the 90's morphed into what some may refer to as the now hated Fat/Hellcat/Epitaph output, which spawned a lot of shit awful pop and ska 'punk', but a lot of straight up punk rock bands also existed, whose crime was to exist at the same time.

Judging by what you posted above though, you were years ahead/behind the curve checking out post-punk, new wave and other stuff pretty much no-one else was listening to at the time.

P.S. Please stop quoting the last ten quotes in your posts. We get the gist, cheers.

[yourenotevil]

First half of the '90s - all manners of punk and hardcore then current but a lot of older stuff from the '70s and '80s, mostly but not exclusively, along with some new-wave, post-punk, classic rock, indie rock, etc. think SST, Dischord, Touch and Go, UK punk, what is called KBD punk now, et al. I read MRR every month.

Second half of the '90s - got deeply into Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, Graham Parker, The Jam, later Clash, Pogues, Gang of Four, et al. (so basically the roots of the stuff I was listening to in the first half of the '90s) and started to drift away from the HC/punk scene but kept one foot in it and still went to shows occasionally. I also got heavily into (mostly) British indie-type stuff (Radiohead, Belle and Sebastian, et al.) and delved into soul, hip-hop, got back into classic rock a bit, etc.

So everything then.

does JGJR ever write a 3 word post like this?

[Welly]

First half of the '90s - all manners of punk and hardcore then current but a lot of older stuff from the '70s and '80s, mostly but not exclusively, along with some new-wave, post-punk, classic rock, indie rock, etc. think SST, Dischord, Touch and Go, UK punk, what is called KBD punk now, et al. I read MRR every month.

Second half of the '90s - got deeply into Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, Graham Parker, The Jam, later Clash, Pogues, Gang of Four, et al. (so basically the roots of the stuff I was listening to in the first half of the '90s) and started to drift away from the HC/punk scene but kept one foot in it and still went to shows occasionally. I also got heavily into (mostly) British indie-type stuff (Radiohead, Belle and Sebastian, et al.) and delved into soul, hip-hop, got back into classic rock a bit, etc.

So everything then.

does JGJR ever write a 3 word post like this?

Nope not ever. That was the long-winded ultra-gasbag version of the guy in work who proclaims he likes "all kinds of music", and you're thinking "nothing then".

[FlexMyHead]

We need some PMA in this thread.

[scannest]

I like both types of music......

[dave123]

Hey, I didn´t want to stir that much of a fuss with just one sentence.

Don't sweat it, that level of fuss can be caused by any mention of Ebullition, Born Against, Heart Attack, etc. It is just a left over effect of being involved in the hardcore scene in the '90s. The '90s were cool for discussions but some of those discussions got out of control and led to unwelcome conclusions... unwarranted accusations of sexism, homophobia, etc. Don't get me wrong, calling people out for their lame actions is a good thing, but some people were accusing others of things after only reading Chapter 1 of the scene handbook. Everyone was under a microscope. Some kids ended up in the hospital because they couldn't be vegan enough and had no idea how to do it properly. I remember a lady (who had been involved in hardcore for a few short months) calling my female housemates and telling them to kick me out of the house because my then girlfriend was too attractive and not enough of a feminist (I know... fully nutso conversations). It was a weird time, so I am not surprised that there is this level of fuss. Thumbs up to Kent and Sam... still causing discussions in 2014. I guess the OLC didn't eradicate all of this nonsense.

[gregpolard]

That first One Life Crew record is tight.

[obik]

unwarranted accusations of sexism, homophobia, etc.

There's no way I can actually post the response to this that I want to.

[yourenotevil]

That first One Life Crew record is tight.

[dave123]

unwarranted accusations of sexism, homophobia, etc.

There's no way I can actually post the response to this that I want to.

Why not? We aren't in the '90s any more.

[dave123]

That first One Life Crew record is tight.

Can't go wrong.

[JGJR]

Judging by what you posted above though, you were years ahead/behind the curve checking out post-punk, new wave and other stuff pretty much no-one else was listening to at the time.

P.S. Please stop quoting the last ten quotes in your posts. We get the gist, cheers.

I never said that. I just tried to list what I was listening to at the time. That is all. And if I missed bands worthy of my attention then, well that's one of the great things about music. There's always more to discover.

And yes, I remember all the chugga-chugga metal (unfortunately). I just thought lewdd meant the '88 sxe type bands, not the later ones. It never went away and morphed into even more tedious screamo and metalcore.

[JGJR]

Nope not ever. That was the long-winded ultra-gasbag version of the guy in work who proclaims he likes "all kinds of music", and you're thinking "nothing then".

I'm not known for brevity, but 90% of what I listen to then and now is punk and indie rock one of sort or another. I was just trying to account for the other 10%. And everyone on here loves music way more than most people. Let's not play that game, OK. I thought we were OK with each other, but you seem to go out of your way to antagonize me (or try). Why? I know you claim you're just taking the piss or whatever, but if I'm not welcome here I will go elsewhere. Sayonara.

[JGJR]

Hey, I didn´t want to stir that much of a fuss with just one sentence.

Don't sweat it, that level of fuss can be caused by any mention of Ebullition, Born Against, Heart Attack, etc. It is just a left over effect of being involved in the hardcore scene in the '90s. The '90s were cool for discussions but some of those discussions got out of control and led to unwelcome conclusions... unwarranted accusations of sexism, homophobia, etc. Don't get me wrong, calling people out for their lame actions is a good thing, but some people were accusing others of things after only reading Chapter 1 of the scene handbook. Everyone was under a microscope. Some kids ended up in the hospital because they couldn't be vegan enough and had no idea how to do it properly. I remember a lady (who had been involved in hardcore for a few short months) calling my female housemates and telling them to kick me out of the house because my then girlfriend was too attractive and not enough of a feminist (I know... fully nutso conversations). It was a weird time, so I am not surprised that there is this level of fuss. Thumbs up to Kent and Sam... still causing discussions in 2014. I guess the OLC didn't eradicate all of this nonsense.

And all of that is why, by '96 or so, I'd stopped listening to most new hardcore and favored new wave/post-punk/Brit-pop, had stopped being vegetarian and sXe, etc.

[lewdd]

Nope not ever. That was the long-winded ultra-gasbag version of the guy in work who proclaims he likes "all kinds of music", and you're thinking "nothing then".

I'm not known for brevity, but 90% of what I listen to then and now is punk and indie rock one of sort or another. I was just trying to account for the other 10%. And everyone on here loves music way more than most people. Let's not play that game, OK. I thought we were OK with each other, but you seem to go out of your way to antagonize me (or try). Why? I know you claim you're just taking the piss or whatever, but if I'm not welcome here I will go elsewhere. Sayonara.

You can't go away all the flowers will die.

[JGJR]

You can't go away all the flowers will die.

I don't want to. You realize that, right?

[lewdd]

Judging by what you posted above though, you were years ahead/behind the curve checking out post-punk, new wave and other stuff pretty much no-one else was listening to at the time.

P.S. Please stop quoting the last ten quotes in your posts. We get the gist, cheers.

I never said that. I just tried to list what I was listening to at the time. That is all. And if I missed bands worthy of my attention then, well that's one of the great things about music. There's always more to discover.

And yes, I remember all the chugga-chugga metal (unfortunately). I just thought lewdd meant the '88 sxe type bands, not the later ones. It never went away and morphed into even more tedious screamo and metalcore.

I meant '88, the later ones, and the screamo and metalcore stuff. I hate it all.

[lewdd]

You can't go away all the flowers will die.

I don't want to. You realize that, right?

Just start posting as 78Clash78.

[JGJR]

I meant '88, the later ones, and the screamo and metalcore stuff. I hate it all.

I bet you would like this, though.

[obik]

You can't go away all the flowers will die.

I don't want to. You realize that, right?

You can't go away, then we won't have any Matt redundancy.

[JGJR]

You can't go away all the flowers will die.

I don't want to. You realize that, right?

Just start posting as 78Clash78.

Well I always did love their 2nd Lp.

[obik]

You can't go away all the flowers will die.

I don't want to. You realize that, right?

Just start posting as 78Clash78.

Well I always did love their 2nd Lp.

You can't go, I just finished building the woodpile in which to burn you and all the other heretics!

[lewdd]

I meant '88, the later ones, and the screamo and metalcore stuff. I hate it all.

I bet you would like this, though.

If you get rid of the silly intro and end the song after about 45 seconds, I would be OK with it.

[obik]

Two best drinking songs ever:

[lewdd]

Here is Earthdog playing a new tune while on break with Silver Screams.

[obik]

Here is Earthdog playing a new tune while on break with Silver Screams.

I don't remember his tits being so big.

[lewdd]

implants filled with pbr

[Welly]

Nope not ever. That was the long-winded ultra-gasbag version of the guy in work who proclaims he likes "all kinds of music", and you're thinking "nothing then".

I'm not known for brevity, but 90% of what I listen to then and now is punk and indie rock one of sort or another. I was just trying to account for the other 10%. And everyone on here loves music way more than most people. Let's not play that game, OK. I thought we were OK with each other, but you seem to go out of your way to antagonize me (or try). Why? I know you claim you're just taking the piss or whatever, but if I'm not welcome here I will go elsewhere. Sayonara.

I was just busting your balls, calm down ya big ninny. You obviously listened to far too much emo in the 90's.

[77clash]

That first One Life Crew record is tight.

Can't go wrong.

Absolutely. 2 Live Crew rocked.

[Stormy]

After Agnostic Fronts first Lp, New York hardcore was mediocre.

Love that album, but just listing random stuff, you really think this is all mediocre??
Urban Waste ep, Antidote ep, Cause For Alarm ep, Breakdown '87 demo, first Burn 7", Absolution, Collapse, Life's Blood (especially on WFMU), the Krakdown '87 demo, Warzone "Street Kids" demo, Cro Mags demo, NYC Mayhem ep and demos/all Straight Ahead, Leeway, Token Entry, Damage, Citizens Arrest 7", Born Against 7", Altercation '87 demo!!!, Death Before Dishonor (pre-Supertouch), Krieg Kopf, The Mob, Nausea, early Prong, Reagan Youth blah blah blah ... oh and the Bad Brains "Roir Tape". Could care less where they were born, that's a NYHC recording.

Not to mention the next 2 Agnostic Front albums (especially Justice For..) are great

do damn glad i grew up in/around NYC in the '80s

[dave123]

That first One Life Crew record is tight.

Can't go wrong.

Absolutely. 2 Live Crew rocked.

Them 2.

[dave123]

After Agnostic Fronts first Lp, New York hardcore was mediocre.

Urban Waste ep, Antidote ep, Cause For Alarm ep, Breakdown '87 demo, first Burn 7", Absolution, Collapse, Life's Blood (especially on WFMU), the Krakdown '87 demo, Warzone "Street Kids" demo, Cro Mags demo, NYC Mayhem ep and demos/all Straight Ahead, Leeway, Token Entry, Damage, Citizens Arrest 7", Born Against 7", Altercation '87 demo!!!, Death Before Dishonor (pre-Supertouch), Krieg Kopf, The Mob, Nausea, early Prong, Reagan Youth blah blah blah ... oh and the Bad Brains "Roir Tape". Could care less where they were born, that's a NYHC recording.

Not to mention the next 2 Agnostic Front albums (especially Justice For..) are great

Such a solid list that is hard to argue with. I would add the first SOIA 7" and LP (even though I like most of their stuff). There are so many essential hardcore classics on this list, I don't see how mediocre can be used to describe them. This list doesn't even include the Gorilla Biscuits or Sheer Terror who are definitely nyhc bands that put out classic records as well post Cause for Alarm.

[The Snake]

As I´ve said before, from 1985. to 1990. most of the good straight forward hardcore in USA was coming from NYC, NJ and LA area. So there is nothing mediocre about that, quite contrary.