Moz's Masterpiece

[version sound]

I'm going with Viva Hate. Yes, I'm including his Smiths output in the equation. I love The Smiths, but as a collection of songs, Viva Hate works best for me. The only record that can compete is Louder Than Bombs, but I don't really think that counts as a proper album.

You?

[Welly]

Probably a shit he had in 1972.

[scannest]

Speaking as a casual fan, the only solo record I really love is Your Arsenal. I love the songs, and it pushes all my buttons, sonically speaking (i.e. - it's the most guitar heavy record he's ever done and it's pretty glammy for huge chunks).
And I've said it before - I could happily live with Louder than Bombs as my sole source of Smiths' muzak.

[gregpolard]

Speaking as a casual fan, the only solo record I really love is Your Arsenal. I love the songs, and it pushes all my buttons, sonically speaking (i.e. - it's the most guitar heavy record he's ever done and it's pretty glammy for huge chunks).
And I've said it before - I could happily live with Louder than Bombs as my sole source of Smiths' muzak.

As you may know (HA) I'm quite Moz obsessed and Your Arsenal is my favorite too, most days. Others, it's Vauxhall and I.

[gregpolard]

Also, I listen to Morrissey solo much more than I listen to the Smiths. Love both and I usually lump them in together when talking about favorite bands (same as I do with Descendents/ALL) but his solo work is actually a lot different than The Smiths.

[version sound]

Speaking as a casual fan, the only solo record I really love is Your Arsenal. I love the songs, and it pushes all my buttons, sonically speaking (i.e. - it's the most guitar heavy record he's ever done and it's pretty glammy for huge chunks).
And I've said it before - I could happily live with Louder than Bombs as my sole source of Smiths' muzak.

Your Arsenal is definintely my second favorite Moz solo record. Louder Than Bombs is my favorite Smiths release, and I am NOT a casual fan. None of the albums have any clunkers on them, but they drag a bit in spots. LTB never drags, even though it's twice as long.

[gregpolard]

Louder Than Bombs is excellent. My favorite as far as the proper four LP's rotates among "Meat Is Murder", "The Queen Is Dead" and (lately) "Strangeways, Here We Come".

[version sound]

Of the proper LPs, the first one is probably my favorite.

[gregpolard]

I love that one too but it's my least favorite of the four. I can't honestly think of another band that had a run like they did (besides The Beatles), in such a short amount of time.

[version sound]

I love that one too but it's my least favorite of the four. I can't honestly think of another band that had a run like they did (besides The Beatles), in such a short amount of time.

The Velvet Underground. Four perfect records in four years and a couple of LPs worth of unreleased stuff that's just as good.

[gregpolard]

Do they only have those 4 records? I honestly don't know much about them. I had the first album years ago and thought it was ok.

[version sound]

Do they only have those 4 records? I honestly don't know much about them. I had the first album years ago and thought it was ok.

We should really have a facepalm smilie. Yup, only 4 LPs while they actually existed. Best band ever, period. Try the third LP (THIS ONE). I picked up a new copy at Barnes & Noble for $4.99 the other day. If that one doesn't do anything for you, your taste is broken.

[gregpolard]

I'll listen on Spotify sometime if it's on there.

[patient_ot]

Viva Hate is great, and some of the non-album tracks recorded around that time are great too. I really like Vini Reilly's guitar playing on that album and wished Moz would've made another record with him.

At any rate, I wouldn't say it's the best album he's done if you count the Smiths, but it is his best solo album, IMHO. That's not saying Your Arsenal and Vauxall & I aren't good too, just that I prefer Viva Hate.

Louder than Bombs is way too disjointed to a be anything close to a proper album. A lot of great songs, but I usually reach for Hatful of Hollow if I want to hear the Smiths and don't want to listen to one of the albums.

[patient_ot]

Do they only have those 4 records? I honestly don't know much about them. I had the first album years ago and thought it was ok.

We should really have a facepalm smilie. Yup, only 4 LPs while they actually existed. Best band ever, period. Try the third LP (THIS ONE). I picked up a new copy at Barnes & Noble for $4.99 the other day. If that one doesn't do anything for you, your taste is broken.

Great album but I have to be in the mood to listen to it these days. A lot of it is pretty depressing. The standalone CD has a different mix than the one you get on the Peel Slowly box set. I picked up the standalone disc the same way, but I'm not sure if I've listened to it yet.

[version sound]

Great album but I have to be in the mood to listen to it these days. A lot of it is pretty depressing. The standalone CD has a different mix than the one you get on the Peel Slowly box set. I picked up the standalone disc the same way, but I'm not sure if I've listened to it yet.

Oh yeah, the mix that's always been on CD is the Val Valentine mix, which was accidentally released on the first UK pressing of the LP. The standard mix on LP otherwise was always Lou Reed's "Closet mix". Somehow, the Valentine mix ended up on nearly all of the CD releases other than the PSAS box. Some are half Valentine and half Reed, to make it even more confusing. I just grabbed a copy of the current press because it was $4.99 and I don't currently have it on CD (I've bought and sold all of the VU releases more times than I can count since the '80s). The 45th Anniversary version will be out by the end of the year, and I'll undoubtedly buy that, so this one was just to tide me over. I also just bought a copy of the UK second pressing LP, which has the correct Closet mix, and better sound than the OG American pressing.

[gregpolard]

Back to Moz....does anyone besides me love the new album?

I am going to estimate that combining iPod, iTunes, iPhone, Spotify and vinyl listens...I’ve listened to it about 100x since July

[version sound]

I’ve listened to it about 100x since July

Good Jah, I don't know if I've listened to Viva Hate a total of 100 times since 1988.

I listened to some tracks from the new one on YouTube around the time it came out and nothing really grabbed me. I don't know why exactly, but nothing after Viva Hate ever got me too excited. I've owned most of his solo records and enjoyed them all, but I feel like whatever really grabbed me from the Smiths era through Viva Hate is missing from everything after that. Time and place maybe, but I was definitely still buying new Moz as soon as it came out through Kill Uncle.

[lewdd]

"I Don't Mind If You Forget Me" is head and shoulders my favorite Morrissey tune. I will admit I have not listened to much of his output since the 1988-1991. Are there any other songs with that tempo that anyone would think I would like?

[patient_ot]

Version, do you have this?

http://www.amazon.com/Hmv-Parlophone-Si ... B002MVS188

If not, you should buy it.

[version sound]

Version, do you have this?

http://www.amazon.com/Hmv-Parlophone-Si ... B002MVS188

If not, you should buy it.

Ha! I actually just ordered that yesterday. I mainly just wanted the VH era b-sides. Unfortunately, I bought a copy of the OG Everyday is Like Sunday CD single before I saw that I could buy the entire set for less than $12. I can probably get my money back reselling that one on eBay, though.

[gregpolard]

"I Don't Mind If You Forget Me" is head and shoulders my favorite Morrissey tune. I will admit I have not listened to much of his output since the 1988-1991. Are there any other songs with that tempo that anyone would think I would like?

Great song. I think that’s one of the few songs that Andy Rourke wrote for solo era Moz if I’m not mistaken.

As for ones with a similar tempo, have you ever heard this one?:

[77clash]

More like that one.

[gregpolard]

This is one of my favorite songs from the underrated “Southpaw Grammar” album:

[yourenotevil]

I’ve listened to it about 100x since July

59 times the pain.....

[gregpolard]

I’ve listened to it about 100x since July

59 times the pain.....

Great song but we're talking about Moz here. Save that for the Hüsker thread.

[JGJR]

Speaking as a casual fan, the only solo record I really love is Your Arsenal. I love the songs, and it pushes all my buttons, sonically speaking (i.e. - it's the most guitar heavy record he's ever done and it's pretty glammy for huge chunks).
And I've said it before - I could happily live with Louder than Bombs as my sole source of Smiths' muzak.

As you may know (HA) I'm quite Moz obsessed and Your Arsenal is my favorite too, most days. Others, it's Vauxhall and I.

Yep. YA is pretty easily his best solo Lp not counting Bona Drag (which is a singles and B-sides compilation). Ain't no way Viva Hate is better than any Smiths Lp, though. That's just crazy talk.

[JGJR]

Louder Than Bombs is excellent. My favorite as far as the proper four LP's rotates among "Meat Is Murder", "The Queen Is Dead" and (lately) "Strangeways, Here We Come".

They're all superb, but to my ears the last 2 studio Lps are superior to the 1st 2 (that's splitting hairs, though) and of course LTB is an astonishingly great compilation.

[JGJR]

Do they only have those 4 records? I honestly don't know much about them. I had the first album years ago and thought it was ok.

We should really have a facepalm smilie. Yup, only 4 LPs while they actually existed. Best band ever, period. Try the third LP (THIS ONE). I picked up a new copy at Barnes & Noble for $4.99 the other day. If that one doesn't do anything for you, your taste is broken.

And go for the closet mix (that's on the box set). Both mixes are great, though, but anyway yeah the s/t 3rd Lp is so great and my favorite VU album.

[john stabb]

Mine might be Maladjusted when it comes to Moz but Vauxhall coming in pretty close. Louder than Bombs definitely for Smiths. Otherwise, I like pieces from others but not complete full albums.

[gregpolard]

Mine might be Maladjusted when it comes to Moz but Vauxhall coming in pretty close. Louder than Bombs definitely for Smiths. Otherwise, I like pieces from others but not complete full albums.

Maladjusted is VERY underrated, IMO. Especially if you consider that the UK track list was only 10 songs and didn’t have the horrible filler “Sorrow Will Come In The End” which apparently Moz liked so much that he decided to have it on the reissue still and removed other tracks instead.

Also, JGJR, “Viva Hate” is just as good as anything the Smiths ever did. Call me crazy.

[version sound]

Yep. YA is pretty easily his best solo Lp not counting Bona Drag (which is a singles and B-sides compilation). Ain't no way Viva Hate is better than any Smiths Lp, though. That's just crazy talk.

Viva Hate makes the rest of his solo records look like poop on vinyl.

They're all superb, but to my ears the last 2 studio Lps are superior to the 1st 2...

Do you never tire of being outrageously off target? Strangeways has some great songs, so does The Queen is Dead, but neither compares to the first LP. Strangeways is easily their weakest record and any album that contains "Frankly Mr. Shankly" can't even be considered for their best.

[gregpolard]

I like "Frankly, Mr. Shankly"

[JGJR]

Yep. YA is pretty easily his best solo Lp not counting Bona Drag (which is a singles and B-sides compilation). Ain't no way Viva Hate is better than any Smiths Lp, though. That's just crazy talk.

Viva Hate makes the rest of his solo records look like poop on vinyl.

They're all superb, but to my ears the last 2 studio Lps are superior to the 1st 2...

Do you never tire of being outrageously off target? Strangeways has some great songs, so does The Queen is Dead, but neither compares to the first LP. Strangeways is easily their weakest record and any album that contains "Frankly Mr. Shankly" can't even be considered for their best.

Uh, I love the first Lp, but I love "Frankly Mr. Shankly," too. There ain't nothin' wrong with that tune (or anything else on The Queen is Dead).

And you're not the only person whose tastes I really respect to say that about Viva Hate (Greg, I know you love it and obviously I respect your tastes, too, but I meant that VS and others consider it head and shoulders above the rest of his solo work and you don't). I just don't hear it. I hear 3 really great songs (2 of which are on Bona Drag), some questionable lyrics on "Bengali in Platforms" and a bunch of listenable filler.

[JGJR]

I like "Frankly, Mr. Shankly"

And that's my new signature!

[gregpolard]

Yep. YA is pretty easily his best solo Lp not counting Bona Drag (which is a singles and B-sides compilation). Ain't no way Viva Hate is better than any Smiths Lp, though. That's just crazy talk.

Viva Hate makes the rest of his solo records look like poop on vinyl.

They're all superb, but to my ears the last 2 studio Lps are superior to the 1st 2...

Do you never tire of being outrageously off target? Strangeways has some great songs, so does The Queen is Dead, but neither compares to the first LP. Strangeways is easily their weakest record and any album that contains "Frankly Mr. Shankly" can't even be considered for their best.

Uh, I love the first Lp, but I love "Frankly Mr. Shankly," too. There ain't nothin' wrong with that tune (or anything else on The Queen is Dead).

And you're not the only person whose tastes I really respect to say that about Viva Hate (Greg, I know you love it and obviously I respect your tastes, too, but I meant that VS and others consider it head and shoulders above the rest of his solo work and you don't). I just don't hear it. I hear 3 really great songs (2 of which are on Bona Drag), some questionable lyrics on "Bengali in Platforms" and a bunch of listenable filler.

I think you read a lot of his lyrics way too literally.

[JGJR]

Yep. YA is pretty easily his best solo Lp not counting Bona Drag (which is a singles and B-sides compilation). Ain't no way Viva Hate is better than any Smiths Lp, though. That's just crazy talk.

Viva Hate makes the rest of his solo records look like poop on vinyl.

They're all superb, but to my ears the last 2 studio Lps are superior to the 1st 2...

Do you never tire of being outrageously off target? Strangeways has some great songs, so does The Queen is Dead, but neither compares to the first LP. Strangeways is easily their weakest record and any album that contains "Frankly Mr. Shankly" can't even be considered for their best.

Uh, I love the first Lp, but I love "Frankly Mr. Shankly," too. There ain't nothin' wrong with that tune (or anything else on The Queen is Dead).

And you're not the only person whose tastes I really respect to say that about Viva Hate (Greg, I know you love it and obviously I respect your tastes, too, but I meant that VS and others consider it head and shoulders above the rest of his solo work and you don't). I just don't hear it. I hear 3 really great songs (2 of which are on Bona Drag), some questionable lyrics on "Bengali in Platforms" and a bunch of listenable filler.

I think you read a lot of his lyrics way too literally.

Maybe so, but I think there's a huge difference between something like say, "Sweet and Tender Hooligan" (where it's clear he's chastising the titular character) and a song like "Bengali in Platforms" (or "Neal Cassady is Dead" for that matter), which to be honest are so unclear that they could a million different ways (same with "The National Front Disco"). I don't think he's a racist or anything, but I've never just never gotten his intent (in "Bengali in Platforms") unless it is a dead-on parody of that kind of attitude that just doesn't translate well for me doesn't quite work for me artistically.

A song like Joni Mitchell's "Free Man in Paris" (or Graham Parker's "The 3 Martini Lunch") are much better at singing from the perspective of someone completely different from the songwriter in question (the former is about David Geffen and the latter a first-person tale of a Hollywood movie exec). Morrissey does a lot of things well, especially lyrically, but that is not one of them IMO.

[version sound]

Yet you celebrate "pre-racist" Skrewdriver.

[JGJR]

Yet you celebrate "pre-racist" Skrewdriver.

Let's not start that debate again. I celebrate all eras of Moz, too, questionable lyrics or not and I explicitly said that I don't think he's a racist and that it was just NME twaddle. It just wouldn't match his political views. At least I hope I'm correct.

[version sound]

I don't know if I believe that Morrissey actually has political views. I think his politics are 100% stances that are constructed by whim and/or to entertain himself.

[gregpolard]

As long as you don't eat meat, you're cool in his eyes.

[JGJR]

I don't know if I believe that Morrissey actually has political views. I think his politics are 100% stances that are constructed by whim and/or to entertain himself.

You need to read his autobiography then. That was honestly the part of it I enjoyed the most other than his musings on the beginnings of The Smiths and their early success.