Ryan Adams - 1984 (punk ep)

[JGJR]

I almost actually listened to this thing based on all the hype around here. Thankfully, Pitchfork stepped in just in time to let me know that it's not that good.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19778-ryan-adams-ryan-adams1984-ep/

Just saw this, too. Idiots.

The funny thing is that the review itself is pretty glowing. However they assign the numerical ratings is obviously complete bullshit. I think that Sal said before that it's not even the reviewers themselves who do it.

Not that it isn't obvious from a mile away, but there is clearly payola or some other sort of favoritism at work here. This is hardly the first such review I've read where the words don't seem to match the score (which I think they do away with altogether). I loved Ryan's response, too. He tweeted this.

https://twitter.com/TheRyanAdams/status ... 9894472704

I feel like if it was 10 years ago, he would've sent the author a really nasty e-mail or voicemail, but this is perfect.

So yeah, what both of you said except that I literally can't stop playing either of these records and must respectfully disagree with the scores. They're 10.0 in my book and thought he review is generally positive, I like these records way more than Mr. Deusner does. The author of the review is correct about the s/t album's inspirations, though. I've said this on here recently, but had it been released between 1979 and 1987, it would have been a blockbuster hit.

I do wish the author knew that Tied Down is a 12", not a 7", though.

[JGJR]

And VS, you should at least give the 1984 EP a listen before you dismiss it. Here you go.


I have a feeling you'll probably say it's the kind of thing you would've loved in 1985, though, but if you're in the mood for something along those lines, it rarely gets better (seriously; at least nowadays for that sort of sound).

[JGJR]

I almost actually listened to this thing based on all the hype around here. Thankfully, Pitchfork stepped in just in time to let me know that it's not that good.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19778-ryan-adams-ryan-adams1984-ep/

Just saw this, too. Idiots.

The funny thing is that the review itself is pretty glowing. However they assign the numerical ratings is obviously complete bullshit. I think that Sal said before that it's not even the reviewers themselves who do it.

I believe that. and I'll say this til I'm blue in the face but they would rate anything Kanye West does as 9 or 10, no matter what. When metal became cool with hipsters, they started reviewing that too. They slag the new U2 and praise Beyonce. GTFO.

So much this (though as you know, I don't think much of the new U2, either). I will probably never "get" the Kanye is a genius thing (though I like his stuff slightly more than you do and I think he is talented), why metal is popular with indie rockers or what makes Beyonce so great.

[gregpolard]

I can't see Twitter at work. What did Adams tweet say?

[JGJR]

I can't see Twitter at work. What did Adams tweet say?

It's just a link to this (directed at Mr. Deusner), which hopefully you will be able to see unless they block Wordpress there, too.

http://ioadicaeu.wordpress.com/2014/07/ ... -patience/

[gregpolard]

I can't see Twitter at work. What did Adams tweet say?

It's just a link to this (directed at Mr. Deusner), which hopefully you will be able to see unless they block Wordpress there, too.

http://ioadicaeu.wordpress.com/2014/07/ ... -patience/

They do. Oh well. lol

[JGJR]

I can't see Twitter at work. What did Adams tweet say?

It's just a link to this (directed at Mr. Deusner), which hopefully you will be able to see unless they block Wordpress there, too.

http://ioadicaeu.wordpress.com/2014/07/ ... -patience/

They do. Oh well. lol

Let me post the text then.

“I no longer have patience for certain things, not because I’ve become arrogant, but simply because I reached a point in my life where I do not want to waste more time with what displeases me or hurts me. I have no patience for cynicism, excessive criticism and demands of any nature. I lost the will to please those who do not like me, to love those who do not love me and to smile at those who do not want to smile at me. I no longer spend a single minute on those who lie or want to manipulate. I decided not to coexist anymore with pretense, hypocrisy, dishonesty and cheap praise. I do not tolerate selective erudition nor academic arrogance. I do not adjust either to popular gossiping. I hate conflict and comparisons. I believe in a world of opposites and that’s why I avoid people with rigid and inflexible personalities. In friendship I dislike the lack of loyalty and betrayal. I do not get along with those who do not know how to give a compliment or a word of encouragement. Exaggerations bore me and I have difficulty accepting those who do not like animals. And on top of everything I have no patience for anyone who does not deserve my patience.” _ Meryl Streep

[gregpolard]

NICE!

[JGJR]

NICE!

It's something to aspire to for sure and what I strive for.

[Welly]

I almost actually listened to this thing based on all the hype around here. Thankfully, Pitchfork stepped in just in time to let me know that it's not that good.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19778-ryan-adams-ryan-adams1984-ep/

Just saw this, too. Idiots.

The funny thing is that the review itself is pretty glowing. However they assign the numerical ratings is obviously complete bullshit. I think that Sal said before that it's not even the reviewers themselves who do it.

I believe that. and I'll say this til I'm blue in the face but they would rate anything Kanye West does as 9 or 10, no matter what. When metal became cool with hipsters, they started reviewing that too. They slag the new U2 and praise Beyonce. GTFO.

Hint: You don't HAVE to read their website.

[gregpolard]

I almost actually listened to this thing based on all the hype around here. Thankfully, Pitchfork stepped in just in time to let me know that it's not that good.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19778-ryan-adams-ryan-adams1984-ep/

Just saw this, too. Idiots.

The funny thing is that the review itself is pretty glowing. However they assign the numerical ratings is obviously complete bullshit. I think that Sal said before that it's not even the reviewers themselves who do it.

I believe that. and I'll say this til I'm blue in the face but they would rate anything Kanye West does as 9 or 10, no matter what. When metal became cool with hipsters, they started reviewing that too. They slag the new U2 and praise Beyonce. GTFO.

Hint: You don't HAVE to read their website.

Well(y) aware. But I can't resist!

[JGJR]

Hint: You don't HAVE to read their website.

I rarely do these days, typically only when I see a review linked here or something.

[scannest]

The funny thing is that the review itself is pretty glowing. However they assign the numerical ratings is obviously complete bullshit. I think that Sal said before that it's not even the reviewers themselves who do it.

Not true. My understanding is that the writers assign the number rating. The only thing they don't get to do is assign something "Best New Music" status. That is the responsibility of the senior editorial staff.

[version sound]

Well, now there's no excuse.

[scannest]

and I'll say this til I'm blue in the face but they would rate anything Kanye West does as 9 or 10, no matter what. When metal became cool with hipsters, they started reviewing that too. They slag the new U2 and praise Beyonce. GTFO.

You've gotta stop with the ragging on Kanye and Beyonce if yer gonna go on about how much you love things like U2 and Fall Out Boy and Paramore. From where I stand it's all hyper-commercial, widest common denominator pop music.

Scratch that - Kayne is flat out weird compared to the other artists mentioned.

[gregpolard]

and I'll say this til I'm blue in the face but they would rate anything Kanye West does as 9 or 10, no matter what. When metal became cool with hipsters, they started reviewing that too. They slag the new U2 and praise Beyonce. GTFO.

You've gotta stop with the ragging on Kanye and Beyonce if yer gonna go on about how much you love things like U2 and Fall Out Boy and Paramore. From where I stand it's all hyper-commercial, widest common denominator pop music.

Scratch that - Kayne is flat out weird compared to the other artists mentioned.

You're missing my point. What I'm saying is that they will give artists like that, on a supposed "Indie blog" site, great ratings. Because those things are "cool". Paramore and Fall out Boy are not cool. If they reviewed them (they haven't) I'm sure they'd get a 0.00.

Edit: I'm well aware they've far transcended the "indie blog" status they once had. But bottom line is, for whateve reason, hipsters have embraced mainstream acts like Kanye West, Beyonce, etc. and it's ok to like them, but say you like Fall Out Boy or Paramore and, lately, even U2 and the internet can't handle that.

[JGJR]

and I'll say this til I'm blue in the face but they would rate anything Kanye West does as 9 or 10, no matter what. When metal became cool with hipsters, they started reviewing that too. They slag the new U2 and praise Beyonce. GTFO.

You've gotta stop with the ragging on Kanye and Beyonce if yer gonna go on about how much you love things like U2 and Fall Out Boy and Paramore. From where I stand it's all hyper-commercial, widest common denominator pop music.

Scratch that - Kayne is flat out weird compared to the other artists mentioned.

You don't get it. Of course all of that stuff is hyper commercial, etc. The frustrating part about their embrace of commercial pop is that they love some and dislike the rest based on arbitrary criteria that I just don't understand or what's cool or whatever. To me, it's all the same (except for Kanye of the artists mentioned, so you are correct there), but maybe I'm just showing my age.

[version sound]

I finally listened to this. Pretty good stuff. Kind of reminds me of early Soul Asylum. But "hardcore"? Nah.

[JGJR]

I finally listened to this. Pretty good stuff. Kind of reminds me of early Soul Asylum. But "hardcore"? Nah.

Yeah it's more Rites of Spring than S.O.A. if that makes sense.

[version sound]

I finally listened to this. Pretty good stuff. Kind of reminds me of early Soul Asylum. But "hardcore"? Nah.

Yeah it's more Rites of Spring than S.O.A. if that makes sense.

Nope. It's much, much more like Soul Asylum or The Replacements. It doesn't even approach hardcore. It's borderline even as punk rock. If I heard this without the hype of it being his punk/hardcore record, I would not think of it as punk.

[JGJR]

I finally listened to this. Pretty good stuff. Kind of reminds me of early Soul Asylum. But "hardcore"? Nah.

Yeah it's more Rites of Spring than S.O.A. if that makes sense.

Nope. It's much, much more like Soul Asylum or The Replacements. It doesn't even approach hardcore. It's borderline even as punk rock. If I heard this without the hype of it being his punk/hardcore record, I would not think of it as punk.

That's revisionist history, though I know you were listening to those records as they came out and I wasn't old enough. If it's like the Mats (and it is), it's more Sorry Ma and Stink (both punk records for sure) than the later stuff and Soul Asylum were originally named after a Stimulators song (Loud Fast Rules), so punk for sure. I think this record is more like Husker Du than either, FWIW.

[version sound]

Revisionist history????????????????? I'm referring to the Ryan Adams record that came out in 2014, not 1984 as the title might suggest. Soul Asylum and The Replacements may have been punk by context, but bands who do not enjoy that same context and were not part of an actual punk scene at that time do not get the same deference.

[JGJR]

Revisionist history????????????????? I'm referring to the Ryan Adams record that came out in 2014, not 1984 as the title might suggest. Soul Asylum and The Replacements may have been punk by context, but bands who do not enjoy that same context and were not part of an actual punk scene at that time do not get the same deference.

Revisionist history in not counting bands like the Mats, early Soul Asylum, etc. as punk, so yes. What bands are you referring to in the 2nd part of your sentence.

[gregpolard]

Oh, you guys.

[scannest]

If we can agree as to what bands it sounds like, what does it matter what genre it is?

And by the way, the closest comparison is early Lemonheads (which was a mix of Husker Du and Dino Jr. in the first place).

[FormerLurker]

Fuck man, I just wanna listen to records and enjoy them and turn them off if I don't. Jesus.

[JGJR]

If we can agree as to what bands it sounds like, what does it matter what genre it is?

And by the way, the closest comparison is early Lemonheads (which was a mix of Husker Du and Dino Jr. in the first place).

Yep. I'd never heard the 1st Lemonheads Lp before the other day and I couldn't get into it. Maybe it's the context, knowing it led to the more accessible stuff but also a lot of the lyrics just seemed really juvenile. I think I would've been into it if I'd heard it at a far younger age.

[Welly]

I finally listened to this. Pretty good stuff. Kind of reminds me of early Soul Asylum. But "hardcore"? Nah.

Yeah it's more Rites of Spring than S.O.A. if that makes sense.

Nope. It's much, much more like Soul Asylum or The Replacements. It doesn't even approach hardcore. It's borderline even as punk rock. If I heard this without the hype of it being his punk/hardcore record, I would not think of it as punk.

That's revisionist history, though I know you were listening to those records as they came out and I wasn't old enough. If it's like the Mats (and it is), it's more Sorry Ma and Stink (both punk records for sure) than the later stuff and Soul Asylum were originally named after a Stimulators song (Loud Fast Rules), so punk for sure. I think this record is more like Husker Du than either, FWIW.

So I heard this based on the Dag hype. First song sounds like a Lemonheads homage, that's it. After that it all sounds like nothing more than Gaslight Anthem trying to do a version of the Replacements by recording their songs fast after a few drinks and a shit vocal effect to make it sound 'old'. If there's any Hüsker Dü in this, it's in the fact that were from the same city as the Replacements, and if it's 'punk', then it's because someone redefined the punk approach to be rushed rather than urgent. I guess we should actually refer to it as 'punkish' like the Bob Mould record. Except Bob's far more punk so who knows where the fuck that leaves this.

[JGJR]

I finally listened to this. Pretty good stuff. Kind of reminds me of early Soul Asylum. But "hardcore"? Nah.

Yeah it's more Rites of Spring than S.O.A. if that makes sense.

Nope. It's much, much more like Soul Asylum or The Replacements. It doesn't even approach hardcore. It's borderline even as punk rock. If I heard this without the hype of it being his punk/hardcore record, I would not think of it as punk.

That's revisionist history, though I know you were listening to those records as they came out and I wasn't old enough. If it's like the Mats (and it is), it's more Sorry Ma and Stink (both punk records for sure) than the later stuff and Soul Asylum were originally named after a Stimulators song (Loud Fast Rules), so punk for sure. I think this record is more like Husker Du than either, FWIW.

So I heard this based on the Dag hype. First song sounds like a Lemonheads homage, that's it. After that it all sounds like nothing more than Gaslight Anthem trying to do a version of the Replacements by recording their songs fast after a few drinks and a shit vocal effect to make it sound 'old'. If there's any Hüsker Dü in this, it's in the fact that were from the same city as the Replacements, and if it's 'punk', then it's because someone redefined the punk approach to be rushed rather than urgent. I guess we should actually refer to it as 'punkish' like the Bob Mould record. Except Bob's far more punk so who knows where the fuck that leaves this.

"When the Summer's Gone" can't help but make me think of "Celebrated Summer" and "Change Your Mind" is clearly an homage to "If I Can't Change Your Mind," so there is a good amount of Mould influence here and they're buddies, too.

And remember that Ryan quoted "Safe" on his new s/t Lp. He's one of us. But regardless, I can't make you like the record, so we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

[version sound]

Revisionist history????????????????? I'm referring to the Ryan Adams record that came out in 2014, not 1984 as the title might suggest. Soul Asylum and The Replacements may have been punk by context, but bands who do not enjoy that same context and were not part of an actual punk scene at that time do not get the same deference.

Revisionist history in not counting bands like the Mats, early Soul Asylum, etc. as punk, so yes. What bands are you referring to in the 2nd part of your sentence.

You misread or misinterpreted my post. I never said Soul Asylum and The Replacements weren't punk, BUT they were considered punk based on being involved in punk scenes, not really based on their music. The Replacements had some records early in their career that could objectively be called punk. Soul Asylum did not. A band who merely sounds like S.A. or Replacements past Stink is NOT a punk band just because those bands were punk-by-context.

[gregpolard]

Some people out there even collect stamps...just for fun.

[Welly]

"When the Summer's Gone" can't help but make me think of "Celebrated Summer" and "Change Your Mind" is clearly an homage to "If I Can't Change Your Mind," so there is a good amount of Mould influence here and they're buddies, too.

And remember that Ryan quoted "Safe" on his new s/t Lp. He's one of us. But regardless, I can't make you like the record, so we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Well you can put a homage in a title, doesn't mean it's in the music. Maybe that put it in your mind. That's good marketing.

What about 'Rats in the Wall' and 'Let Go'? That's defo a tip of the hat to Rancid dontcha think? I can hear it in the middle eight.

'Broken Eyes'? GI all the fuckin' way man!

'Tired of Giving Up' and 'Shadows' - what a way to give some props to TSOL!

'Look in the Mirror'? Fuckin' A it's Youth Brigade! I'm gonna siiink with indie rock yeah, when it faaalls into the seeeeeeeaaaaa!

[version sound]

If we can agree as to what bands it sounds like, what does it matter what genre it is?

Because a lot of the hype about this record has been based on the fact that it's his punk/hardcore record. I don't think comparing it to the likes of Squirrel Bait or selling it as a punk record does him any favors. The songs are decent enough, but they fact that it wasn't actually particularly punk and didn't sound a thing like Squirrel bait meant that I was instantly disappointed. If the genre and comparisons hadn't been so off, my expectations would have been different and I might have enjoyed it more than I did.

[JGJR]

"When the Summer's Gone" can't help but make me think of "Celebrated Summer" and "Change Your Mind" is clearly an homage to "If I Can't Change Your Mind," so there is a good amount of Mould influence here and they're buddies, too.

And remember that Ryan quoted "Safe" on his new s/t Lp. He's one of us. But regardless, I can't make you like the record, so we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Well you can put a homage in a title, doesn't mean it's in the music. Maybe that put it in your mind. That's good marketing.

What about 'Rats in the Wall' and 'Let Go'? That's defo a tip of the hat to Rancid dontcha think? I can hear it in the middle eight.

'Broken Eyes'? GI all the fuckin' way man!

'Tired of Giving Up' and 'Shadows' - what a way to give some props to TSOL!

'Look in the Mirror'? Fuckin' A it's Youth Brigade! I'm gonna siiink with indie rock yeah, when it faaalls into the seeeeeeeaaaaa!

Funny, but obviously the music sounds much more like Huskers circa EFA or Metal Circus (or Mats circa the 1st 2 records) than any of the other stuff you mention and clearly that stuff was a big influence on Lemonheads, SA and other bands this reminds me of (Squirrel Bait and Nils, who were more like contemporaries given when they started).

[Welly]

Funny, but obviously the music sounds much more like Huskers circa EFA or Metal Circus (or Mats circa the 1st 2 records) than any of the other stuff you mention and clearly that stuff was a big influence on Lemonheads, SA and other bands this reminds me of (Squirrel Bait and Nils, who were more like contemporaries given when they started).

Nah, it doesn't 'obviously' sound like Hüsker Dü at all. Not to me. But you're the expert. Of experts. And I'm just taking the piss.

Oh, so now there's Squirrel Bait and the Nils in the mix? This just speaks volumes about the power of suggestion. Those bands were actually good for fuck's sake.

[version sound]

Huskers circa EFA or Metal Circus

No. Absolutely not. Replacements mid-career, maybe. If it sounds like Husker Du at all, it's the Warner records, which are great, but not punk in any way other than history/context.

[JGJR]

Huskers circa EFA or Metal Circus

No. Absolutely not. Replacements mid-career, maybe. If it sounds like Husker Du at all, it's the Warner records, which are great, but not punk in any way other than history/context.

I don't hear it that way. Name one mid-career Mats or major label era Husker song that cuts off at the one minute mark?

[version sound]

Huskers circa EFA or Metal Circus

No. Absolutely not. Replacements mid-career, maybe. If it sounds like Husker Du at all, it's the Warner records, which are great, but not punk in any way other than history/context.

I don't hear it that way. Name one mid-career Mats or major label era Husker song that cuts off at the one minute mark?

You're basing your opinion on LENGTH? Cut a Grateful Dead song off after 30 seconds and there still isn't a damn thing about it that can be considered punk. You have a weird way of perceiving music.

[JGJR]

Huskers circa EFA or Metal Circus

No. Absolutely not. Replacements mid-career, maybe. If it sounds like Husker Du at all, it's the Warner records, which are great, but not punk in any way other than history/context.

I don't hear it that way. Name one mid-career Mats or major label era Husker song that cuts off at the one minute mark?

You're basing your opinion on LENGTH? Cut a Grateful Dead song off after 30 seconds and there still isn't a damn thing about it that can be considered punk. You have a weird way of perceiving music.

Is something on the 1984 EP really THAT far off from oh I don't know, something like this. 3rd album so I am cheating a bit but in the style of Stink for sure.

[Welly]

Is something on the 1984 EP really THAT far off from oh I don't know, something like this. 3rd album so I am cheating a bit but in the style of Stink for sure.

Sure does! If you take out all the rockin', balls and cohesive song structure.

Is that you putting the record on?

[JGJR]

Is something on the 1984 EP really THAT far off from oh I don't know, something like this. 3rd album so I am cheating a bit but in the style of Stink for sure.

Sure does! If you take out all the rockin', balls and cohesive song structure.

Is that you putting the record on?

Ha ha. No. I've never posted anything to YouTube. My copy is one of these, FWIW.

http://www.discogs.com/Replacements-Hoo ... se/5156147

[version sound]

Outside of Stink, The Replacements were always more punk-influenced than punk. Some of you guys want to call everything punk. Even under a big tent, some things are still objectively not punk.

[JGJR]

Outside of Stink, The Replacements were always more punk-influenced than punk. Some of you guys want to call everything punk. Even under a big tent, some things are still objectively not punk.

Especially stuff like the Sex Pistols, who influenced every UK punk (and by extension, post-punk, etc.) band to ever exist.

[version sound]

Outside of Stink, The Replacements were always more punk-influenced than punk. Some of you guys want to call everything punk. Even under a big tent, some things are still objectively not punk.

Especially stuff like the Sex Pistols, who influenced every UK punk (and by extension, post-punk, etc.) band to ever exist.

WTF are you even talking about?

[JGJR]

Outside of Stink, The Replacements were always more punk-influenced than punk. Some of you guys want to call everything punk. Even under a big tent, some things are still objectively not punk.

Especially stuff like the Sex Pistols, who influenced every UK punk (and by extension, post-punk, etc.) band to ever exist.

WTF are you even talking about?

How quickly you forget...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=864&p=14091&hilit=sex+pistols#p14091

[version sound]

You really don't pay any attention to context, do you? Take away the vocal track and the punk rock trappings and honestly tell me that if you heard the music only from NMTB that you would say "THAT'S PUNK ROCK!". The music itself is 100% hard rock and/or glam.

[JGJR]

You really don't pay any attention to context, do you? Take away the vocal track and the punk rock trappings and honestly tell me that if you heard the music only from NMTB that you would say "THAT'S PUNK ROCK!". The music itself is 100% hard rock and/or glam.

I don't want to get into an MRR style debate about what is and isn't punk (though I guess that's what this is), but my point is that if you don't think THE SINGLE MOST INFLUENTIAL UK PUNK BAND EVER is a punk band at all (you could make the same argument about The Ramones; just '60s garage and Beach Boys type stuff sped up, et al.), how is your view on the subject more valid than anyone else's? And like scannest said, what does it matter in this context? And more to the point, if you didn't know it was Ryan Adams and just heard it randomly, you'd probably say it was a punk record, at least by 2014 standards.

[Welly]

if you didn't know it was Ryan Adams and just heard it randomly, you'd probably say it was a punk record, at least by 2014 standards.

So hang on, you're now saying that the Ryan Adams 'punk' record you said was based on early Replacements and Hüsker Dü sounds like 2014 'punk'?

[JGJR]

if you didn't know it was Ryan Adams and just heard it randomly, you'd probably say it was a punk record, at least by 2014 standards.

So hang on, you're now saying that the Ryan Adams 'punk' record you said was based on early Replacements and Hüsker Dü sounds like 2014 'punk'?

Well in 2014 "punk" can mean anything from mall type stuff to blackened crust, so yeah but I suppose in the mid '80s it would probably get played on college radio yet appeal to hardcore kids, too.

[version sound]

...if you don't think THE SINGLE MOST INFLUENTIAL UK PUNK BAND EVER is a punk band at all.

Jesus H. Christ. Stop skimming and start actually reading. I never once argued that the Sex Pistols weren't a punk band. Details are not your bag, are they?

And more to the point, if you didn't know it was Ryan Adams and just heard it randomly, you'd probably say it was a punk record, at least by 2014 standards.

NO.