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by **version sound** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:22 am

Anyone have them handy? They were one of the things lost with my iPod's untimely passing.

by **gregpolard** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:07 am

How different are they? Never heard them, truth be told. I've had the SST versions since I first got into them.

by **version sound** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:58 am

Supposedly much better. I never did a side by side comparison.

by **soulforce** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:25 pm

Which album is that? Is it just "Milo Goes to College"? Official or bootleg?

by **Welly** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:25 pm

Sounds different. I've got both. But only vinyl. New Alliance is superior.

by **MXV** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:49 pm

Welly wrote:Sounds different. I've got both. But only vinyl. New Alliance is superior.

The NAR version of Milo Goes to College is light years better. There's actual low end and you can hear the drums. The SST one sounds like absolute shit as it was mastered from that shitty sounding CD. I have these on a drive at home somewhere as Lew and I digitized it a few years ago when he was over at my house.

by **Welly** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:19 pm

Lew - what happened to that guy?

by **gregpolard** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:53 pm

Very curious to hear this. I have the mp3s that I ripped from the CD I used to own, and the vinyl I have is just one of the later SST pressings.

by **version sound** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:07 pm

It was the first two LPs. Got them from Lew. Where is that dude? WE NEED YOU LEW! PLEASE COME HOME!

Website · by **JGJR** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:49 pm

gregpolard wrote:How different are they? Never heard them, truth be told. I've had the SST versions since I first got into them.

I have at least Enjoy! If you're interested, you know what to do (you too, VS).

Website · by **JGJR** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:54 pm

version sound wrote:It was the first two LPs. Got them from Lew. Where is that dude? WE NEED YOU LEW! PLEASE COME HOME!

He was my source as well. :lol:

I just checked and I have mp3s of the New Alliance mix of Milo Goes to College and the "Ride the Wild" 7" in addition to Enjoy!

by **akissfan** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:17 am

Ya, where is Lew? I know he slashed my tires.

by **Matschy** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:50 am

This one?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/80qgeii5acngi8n/bAjVewlXnA

by **soulforce** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:25 am

Thanks, Matschy!
Better mastering job, that's all... at least to my ears. I don't think these are alternate mixes.

by **Knutsen** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:25 am

Nice, I am hanging out on ALL/Descendents related messageboards for more than 15 years and never heard about this difference being discussed.

by **Matschy** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:44 am

speculation time:

I'm just comparing those mp3's with the sst vinyl and the difference is marginal.

My setup ist quite mediocre (technics 1210, cheapo ortofon system) and i'd guess
a better setup would make the "difference".

i also don't think that it's the Cd master as the earliest Cd version came out in
1991 (via two things at once), while the SST vinyl was already done in 1987.
...at least if those dates on discogs are correct!

by **Welly** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:49 am

I always thought SST just took the audio for the CDs from their version of the vinyl, which was crappily mastered in the first place.

by **WrEtcH** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:55 am

Matschy wrote:speculation time:

I'm just comparing those mp3's with the sst vinyl and the difference is marginal.

My setup ist quite mediocre (technics 1210, cheapo ortofon system) and i'd guess
a better setup would make the "difference".

i also don't think that it's the Cd master as the earliest Cd version came out in
1991 (via two things at once), while the SST vinyl was already done in 1987.
...at least if those dates on discogs are correct!

it's been a while since I dug out the vinyl but yeah, I do have "Milo Goes" & "Enjoy" before SST grabbed 'em. Can't remember if "I Don't Want To Grow" was originally on SST or New Alliance. It's been ages since my turn table broke and I was playing my cassettes, then eventually made the jump to CD.

by **MXV** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:45 am

WrEtcH wrote:
Matschy wrote:speculation time:

I'm just comparing those mp3's with the sst vinyl and the difference is marginal.

My setup ist quite mediocre (technics 1210, cheapo ortofon system) and i'd guess
a better setup would make the "difference".

i also don't think that it's the Cd master as the earliest Cd version came out in
1991 (via two things at once), while the SST vinyl was already done in 1987.
...at least if those dates on discogs are correct!

it's been a while since I dug out the vinyl but yeah, I do have "Milo Goes" & "Enjoy" before SST grabbed 'em. Can't remember if "I Don't Want To Grow" was originally on SST or New Alliance. It's been ages since my turn table broke and I was playing my cassettes, then eventually made the jump to CD.

It was originally on NAR.

The SST Descendents vinyl didn't come out until around 1988/1989 at which point they also did those CDs. It's not the mix that is different but the mastering is totally different as there is really no low end on the SST shit. If you play the two versions of the vinyl back to back it is startling how different they sound in even the opening 20 seconds of the first song.

by **Matschy** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:42 am

hmmm... one of my friends has the NAR vinyl of ...goes to college. Seems like
i'll have to get it from him to get a lossless copy.

by **Gary** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:34 am

I never knew there was a difference. I've had the NAR version of "Milo..." forever and it's the only version I know. As an aside,only the NAR version has the lyrics,right?

by **MXV** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:25 am

Gary wrote:I never knew there was a difference. I've had the NAR version of "Milo..." forever and it's the only version I know. As an aside,only the NAR version has the lyrics,right?

Only the very first press of the vinyl had a lyric sheet. The second one which was more common did not. None of the SST versions did either although they may have printed the lyrics in the CD, I forget as it has been years since I even looked at mine.

by **gregpolard** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:27 am

MXV wrote:
Gary wrote:I never knew there was a difference. I've had the NAR version of "Milo..." forever and it's the only version I know. As an aside,only the NAR version has the lyrics,right?

Only the very first press of the vinyl had a lyric sheet. The second one which was more common did not. None of the SST versions did either although they may have printed the lyrics in the CD, I forget as it has been years since I even looked at mine.

The CD version of MGTC did not have lyrics, however, the CD version of Two Things At Once did/does. How I remember that, I have no idea.

by **Knutsen** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:18 am

OK here are my 2 cents:
I dont really believe that they sound different due to a new mastering process.
MGTC was released as NAR05 in 1982, the re-release as SST 142 was in 1988.

I would imagin that Mike Watt just drove from San Pedro to Lawndale to hand the tape reels over to Greg Ginn.
Would they really have needed a new mastering process? Is this necessary?

Factors for a declined sound quality may have been that the tape aged or that the vinyl pressing was not of the same quality.

Different example same thing:
I got the NAR vinyl of Hüsker Düs Landspeed record. The grooves widen between the songs.
No widening of the grooves on the Alternative Tentacles re-release. This means they had cut a new lacquer?

I am confusing myself.

by **Welly** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:42 am

Knutsen wrote:OK here are my 2 cents:
I dont really believe that they sound different due to a new mastering process.
MGTC was released as NAR05 in 1982, the re-release as SST 142 was in 1988.

I would imagin that Mike Watt just drove from San Pedro to Lawndale to hand the tape reels over to Greg Ginn.
Would they really have needed a new mastering process? Is this necessary?

Factors for a declined sound quality may have been that the tape aged or that the vinyl pressing was not of the same quality.

Different example same thing:
I got the NAR vinyl of Hüsker Düs Landspeed record. The grooves widen between the songs.
No widening of the grooves on the Alternative Tentacles re-release. This means they had cut a new lacquer?

I am confusing myself.

One thing you quickly realise when running even the smallest record shop that trades in used vinyl, is that there are many pressings of pretty much everything, much more than documented, and most of which you won't find on discographies, Discogs etc.

by **MXV** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:46 pm

Knutsen wrote:OK here are my 2 cents:
I dont really believe that they sound different due to a new mastering process.
MGTC was released as NAR05 in 1982, the re-release as SST 142 was in 1988.

I would imagin that Mike Watt just drove from San Pedro to Lawndale to hand the tape reels over to Greg Ginn.
Would they really have needed a new mastering process? Is this necessary?

Factors for a declined sound quality may have been that the tape aged or that the vinyl pressing was not of the same quality.

Different example same thing:
I got the NAR vinyl of Hüsker Düs Landspeed record. The grooves widen between the songs.
No widening of the grooves on the Alternative Tentacles re-release. This means they had cut a new lacquer?

I am confusing myself.

The quality of the vinyl could never make that big of a difference in the sound quality. It was absolutely remastered, meaning re-cut , a new set of lacquers were cut and new plates made from them which have now been used for well over two decades. Whoever did that new mastering job sucked ass at it. Whether it was from a cassette tape, a shitty CD or even the master tapes the end result was crappy and missing all the low end and the drums are buried. So the short of it is when Mike sold those rights to Greg and turned over the assets, Greg took something and had new plates made for the SST reissue from it and did his typical shit job of things.

As for the NAR/AT versions of Land Speed Record what would typically happen in those old days was if a label licensed out one of their releases they'd have to send some sort of tape to be used to make a lacquer from. They likely made a backup copy of the finished master tape and sent that to whoever they licensed the release to. So what AT in the UK did was take that tape and have their mastering guy of choice local to them make cut lacquers then sent it to be plated and pressed in their region. That's why the grooves and matrix etchings will be different. Sound quality may vary for a number of reasons as no two people will cut the same from even the same source and equipment also varies.

by **SamDBL** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:42 pm

I remember a local band, before I was really doing much musically, was having an issue in that they had sent the final, recorded product to a vinyl pressing plant. And that the plant insisted on doing some sort of remaster job before they'd press. It was sent back and forth several times before final approval. I believe it was a pretty big plant, as this was a Cargo release when Cargo was somewhat of a big deal. Anyhow, maybe something like that happened. I have no idea what versions I've heard through the years of MGTC. The one I personally owned was SST, and I always thought it sounded pretty great. Especially for the time.

by **xxxMidgexxx** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:00 pm

I like the new Carcass. Who's to say I wouldn't.

by **jaybird** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:45 pm

I'm almost positive the SST version of MGTC came out in the summer of 1987. The reason I remember is because I bought it at Schoolkid's Records in Ann Arbor, on my way home from freshman orientation at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo. I just looked at my copy, SST 142 and it says "(p) 1987 SST Records P.O. Box 1 Lawndale, CA 90260"

Make of that what you will.

by **Knutsen** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:31 am

jaybird wrote:I'm almost positive the SST version of MGTC came out in the summer of 1987. The reason I remember is because I bought it at Schoolkid's Records in Ann Arbor, on my way home from freshman orientation at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo. I just looked at my copy, SST 142 and it says "(p) 1987 SST Records P.O. Box 1 Lawndale, CA 90260"

Make of that what you will.

very probably a misprint.

by **Welly** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:48 am

Knutsen wrote:
jaybird wrote:I'm almost positive the SST version of MGTC came out in the summer of 1987. The reason I remember is because I bought it at Schoolkid's Records in Ann Arbor, on my way home from freshman orientation at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo. I just looked at my copy, SST 142 and it says "(p) 1987 SST Records P.O. Box 1 Lawndale, CA 90260"

Make of that what you will.

very probably a misprint.

http://www.discogs.com/Descendents-Milo-Goes-To-College/release/1220012

by **Knutsen** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:15 am

Welly wrote:
Knutsen wrote:
jaybird wrote:I'm almost positive the SST version of MGTC came out in the summer of 1987. The reason I remember is because I bought it at Schoolkid's Records in Ann Arbor, on my way home from freshman orientation at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo. I just looked at my copy, SST 142 and it says "(p) 1987 SST Records P.O. Box 1 Lawndale, CA 90260"

Make of that what you will.

very probably a misprint.

http://www.discogs.com/Descendents-Milo-Goes-To-College/release/1220012

Where do you think they got this information from?
From the misprint on the record cover!

by **Welly** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:46 am

Are you like a Descendents librarian or something?

by **Knutsen** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:34 am

No, just kidding around. :lol:

I couldnt care less about the release date.

by **littletimmy** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:17 am

the original new alliance pressing sounds 100000 times better. same with the original pressing of the circle jerks "wild in the streets". get both of the originals if you can.

timmy

Website · by **JGJR** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:38 pm

Welly wrote:Are you like a Descendents librarian or something?

That might be my dream job right there. :lol:

by **106beatsthat** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:53 am

Was that Dropbox link an upload of one of the original mixes?

If so could anyone please reupload it? I'd love to do a side-by-side comparison...

Finding a music blog post with three (THREE!) different mixes of the MDC S/T LP was the highlight of that particular month.

by **wALLton** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:24 pm

So there's been plenty of talk on the sound difference for MGTC but not much said about IDWTGU. Has anyone compared the New Alliance Records and SST versions of this album to find out if there is a noticeable difference in sound quality? I've only ever owned the CDs so would be curious to know if one exists, particularly since this album already sounds super tight on CD. And if anyone can hook me up with lossless versions of any of this stuff (or the Circle Jerks WITS Faulty Products mix) I'd REALLY appreciate it. Or even 320kbps versions would suffice. Always happy to trade.

by **Gary** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:58 pm

wALLton wrote:(or the Circle Jerks WITS Faulty Products mix)

going off topic,but is this the same or different to the UK Step Forward pressing? As that's the only one I'm familiar with.

by **James** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:16 pm

Gary wrote:
wALLton wrote:(or the Circle Jerks WITS Faulty Products mix)

going off topic,but is this the same or different to the UK Step Forward pressing? As that's the only one I'm familiar with.

I believe it's the same mix.

by **lewdd** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:59 pm

I don't remember the I Don't Want to Grow Up LP sounding different on NAR than SST.

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