The MC5 Fully Evaluated

[version sound]

I started out ass-backwards with Back in the USA and High Time. My synopsis of both is: a few great songs and a lot of pseudo-revolutionary Sha Na Na. Smith and Kramer do both have exquisite tone on High Time, like some of the best classic rock guitar sounds I've ever heard.

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material? I think you could make one solid LP out of the second and third records.

[obik]

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material?

Yes, they ran out of material and called that album "Back In The USA." Luckily they got back on track and managed an entire ellpee's worth of fantastic songs for High Time.

I think you could make one solid LP out of the second and third records.

Double LP, with a bonus 45 of the two or three decent songs of Back In The USA.

Didjalissentoo Thunder Express? I actually figgered you'd loathe Kick Out The Jams for the hippydippy factor and jamminess, but might've liked Thunder Express because it tightens up some of that material...

[version sound]

At risk of damaging my punker than fuck image, I have to admit that I looove hippy shit. Plus, they rock LAMF. I was just going over the original LPs. I'll get to the other stuff.

[yourenotevil]

i also think kick out the jams is the best one by far. the other two have good songs but the production is not quite right for their style.

[version sound]

I don't understand going from free jazz revolutionaries to retro '50s rockers. It just seems so trad and square considering their reputation as proto-punk radicals.

[obik]

I don't understand going from free jazz revolutionaries to retro '50s rockers. It just seems so trad and square considering their reputation as proto-punk radicals.

Lotsa people blame the two Johns: John Sinclair for getting locked up, and John Landau for "managing" the band into wholesome all-american-rock-n-roll.

Landau, in case you didn't know, is the man who would be responsible for Bruce Springsteen.

[scannest]

A lot of people think Back in the USA was also a response to Lester Bangs' harsh review of Kick Out the Jams in Rolling Stone. He accused them of being sloppy-borderline-train-wreck on that record and they decided to work extra hard to be as precise and streamlined as possible on BitU. Stories abound that they would practice for 6-7 hours a day and lived in a communal house where they would eat health food and go jogging together.
FWIW, I love BitU, paper-thin production and all. Great songs, great performances.

[version sound]

I like the originals on that record. I could happily live without the covers.

[yourenotevil]

I don't understand going from free jazz revolutionaries to retro '50s rockers. It just seems so trad and square considering their reputation as proto-punk radicals.

their crowd banter on that record is pretty embarrassing, to say the least. i can see what they were getting at, but trying to use the work honky like that just sounded so damn corny.

[xxxHunterxxx]

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material?

Yes, they ran out of material and called that album "Back In The USA." Luckily they got back on track and managed an entire ellpee's worth of fantastic songs for High Time.

Congrats, Obik. You just earned yourself a lunch, during which I will explain the MC5

[danny]

i like all three of the records - but oddly enough, i like BitUSA every bit as much as KOtJ...though i've never liked that it lead off with Tutti Frutti. High Times is probably my least fave.

In the six degrees of separation department...swervedriver were playing detroit in 92, so during sound check we decided to run through looking at you. rob tyner's wife was actually preparing the meal for us at the club (we didn't know that when we did the song...we might have tried playing it better if we had!). She came up and introduced herself and said she really liked our version and appreciated that we played it. i guess rob had died the year before that, so it was probably still fresh in her mind. anyway - she made a tasty vegetarian meal for us...and it was probably the most healthy meal we had on our 3 month tour.

[scannest]

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material?

Yes, they ran out of material and called that album "Back In The USA." Luckily they got back on track and managed an entire ellpee's worth of fantastic songs for High Time.

Congrats, Obik. You just earned yourself a lunch, during which I will explain the MC5

But who will take you to lunch and the explain how the "quote" function works around here?

[pedro]

But who will take you to lunch and the explain how the "quote" function works around here?

Target.

[xxxHunterxxx]

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material?

Yes, they ran out of material and called that album "Back In The USA." Luckily they got back on track and managed an entire ellpee's worth of fantastic songs for High Time.

Congrats, Obik. You just earned yourself a lunch, during which I will explain the MC5

But who will take you to lunch and the explain how the "quote" function works around here?

Cut me some slack -- I'm posting from an iPhone.

[version sound]

Cut me some slack -- I'm posting from an iPhone.

DENIED. I'm posting from an Android which is, additionally, a piece of garbage.

[obik]

Cut me some slack -- I'm posting from an iPhone.

DENIED. I'm posting from an Android which is, additionally, a piece of garbage.

Baby, you are sexxxxay when you're being fierce. Do this more often, okay?

[drew]

I love all three LP's and even some of the alt. versions on "Babes In Arms" & some of the collections......
"Back in the USA" is great cause the tunes are great but Landau deserved to be beaten for the production. But they screwed themselves by trying to start a Revolutionary Party "The White Panthers" and got the cops looking at everything they did. After Sinclair got arrested it was just a matter of time before it all blew up.
The Sonic Rendevous Band is great too....

[JGJR]

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material?

Yes, they ran out of material and called that album "Back In The USA." Luckily they got back on track and managed an entire ellpee's worth of fantastic songs for High Time.

I think you could make one solid LP out of the second and third records.

Double LP, with a bonus 45 of the two or three decent songs of Back In The USA.

Didjalissentoo Thunder Express? I actually figgered you'd loathe Kick Out The Jams for the hippydippy factor and jamminess, but might've liked Thunder Express because it tightens up some of that material...

I think High Time is definitely their best album sound-wise (VS is completely right about the guitar one), but Back in the USA is their best material-wise. I mean seriously, obik, "American Ruse" and "Human Being Lawnmower" are incredible.

[JGJR]

I don't understand going from free jazz revolutionaries to retro '50s rockers. It just seems so trad and square considering their reputation as proto-punk radicals.

Lotsa people blame the two Johns: John Sinclair for getting locked up, and John Landau for "managing" the band into wholesome all-american-rock-n-roll.

Landau, in case you didn't know, is the man who would be responsible for Bruce Springsteen.

He wasn't "responsible" for Bruce Springsteen as he only came in during the late '70s after Springsteen's was screwed over by his previous manager. Yes, Landau did write the famous "I've seen the future of rock and roll..." line before managing Springsteen, but Springsteen already had 2 albums out before Landau took over.

[JGJR]

I like the originals on that record. I could happily live without the covers.

I feel the same way, actually. I don't mind the covers, but they are just kinda there.

[JGJR]

I love all three LP's and even some of the alt. versions on "Babes In Arms" & some of the collections......
"Back in the USA" is great cause the tunes are great but Landau deserved to be beaten for the production. But they screwed themselves by trying to start a Revolutionary Party "The White Panthers" and got the cops looking at everything they did. After Sinclair got arrested it was just a matter of time before it all blew up.
The Sonic Rendevous Band is great too....

Completely on point...I will say that some of the versions on Babes in Arms are superior to the ones on the albums IMO.

[obik]

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material?

Yes, they ran out of material and called that album "Back In The USA." Luckily they got back on track and managed an entire ellpee's worth of fantastic songs for High Time.

I think you could make one solid LP out of the second and third records.

Double LP, with a bonus 45 of the two or three decent songs of Back In The USA.

I think High Time is definitely their best album sound-wise (VS is completely right about the guitar one), but Back in the USA is their best material-wise. I mean seriously, obik, "American Ruse" and "Human Being Lawnmower" are incredible.

Yeah. And you put those two songs on the bonus 45 that comes with the Kick Out The Jams / High Time double LP. Everything else on Back In The USA is disposable at best, offensive at worst.

Did you not read what I wrote?

[JGJR]

After that, I finally got to Kick Out The Jams, which I honestly wasn't expecting to like much, but holy shite, what a great friggin' record. I noticed more than one riff that the Stooges later stole. This leaves me wondering what the fuck happened to them? Did they just run out of material?

Yes, they ran out of material and called that album "Back In The USA." Luckily they got back on track and managed an entire ellpee's worth of fantastic songs for High Time.

I think you could make one solid LP out of the second and third records.

Double LP, with a bonus 45 of the two or three decent songs of Back In The USA.

I think High Time is definitely their best album sound-wise (VS is completely right about the guitar one), but Back in the USA is their best material-wise. I mean seriously, obik, "American Ruse" and "Human Being Lawnmower" are incredible.

Yeah. And you put those two songs on the bonus 45 that comes with the Kick Out The Jams / High Time double LP. Everything else on Back In The USA is disposable at best, offensive at worst.

Did you not read what I wrote?

I read it. At least we agree on which songs are best on Back in the USA. I don't think it's really a debate, honestly. Why do you say offensive, though?

[obik]

Landau, in case you didn't know, is the man who would be responsible for Bruce Springsteen.

He wasn't "responsible" for Bruce Springsteen as he only came in during the late '70s after Springsteen's was screwed over by his previous manager. Yes, Landau did write the famous "I've seen the future of rock and roll..." line before managing Springsteen, but Springsteen already had 2 albums out before Landau took over.

And if Landau had never seen Bruce Springsteen, the world would be a much better place. A world where Bruce Springsteen wound up pumping gas and huffing the fumes of icouldabeenacontendahood instead of making albums...

[obik]

I think High Time is definitely their best album sound-wise (VS is completely right about the guitar one), but Back in the USA is their best material-wise. I mean seriously, obik, "American Ruse" and "Human Being Lawnmower" are incredible.

Yeah. And you put those two songs on the bonus 45 that comes with the Kick Out The Jams / High Time double LP. Everything else on Back In The USA is disposable at best, offensive at worst.

Why do you say offensive, though?

Tutti Frutti? Third lamest cover version ever (which is really saying something, given how many shitty covers there've been of that song). It's not just limp and lifeless and lame, it's offensive. It's sacrilegious. It's Kenny G covering Sun Ra.

And Back In The USA? Christ. If covering Little Richard didn't make for an embarrassing enough comparison, they had to drug out and mutilate Chuck Berry. Fuck 'em.

[JGJR]

I think High Time is definitely their best album sound-wise (VS is completely right about the guitar one), but Back in the USA is their best material-wise. I mean seriously, obik, "American Ruse" and "Human Being Lawnmower" are incredible.

Yeah. And you put those two songs on the bonus 45 that comes with the Kick Out The Jams / High Time double LP. Everything else on Back In The USA is disposable at best, offensive at worst.

Why do you say offensive, though?

Tutti Frutti? Third lamest cover version ever (which is really saying something, given how many shitty covers there've been of that song). It's not just limp and lifeless and lame, it's offensive. It's sacrilegious. It's Kenny G covering Sun Ra.

And Back In The USA? Christ. If covering Little Richard didn't make for an embarrassing enough comparison, they had to drug out and mutilate Chuck Berry. Fuck 'em.

Totally not what I thought you were gonna say...like I said before, those covers are OK, just a lot less interesting than some of the original material on that album.

[version sound]

If Hunter thinks BitUSA is good, other than the songs mentioned, he really does need to buy obik lunch and learn a little about the MC5 and music in general.

[obik]

I think High Time is definitely their best album sound-wise (VS is completely right about the guitar one), but Back in the USA is their best material-wise. I mean seriously, obik, "American Ruse" and "Human Being Lawnmower" are incredible.

Yeah. And you put those two songs on the bonus 45 that comes with the Kick Out The Jams / High Time double LP. Everything else on Back In The USA is disposable at best, offensive at worst.

Why do you say offensive, though?

Tutti Frutti? Third lamest cover version ever (which is really saying something, given how many shitty covers there've been of that song). It's not just limp and lifeless and lame, it's offensive. It's sacrilegious. It's Kenny G covering Sun Ra.

And Back In The USA? Christ. If covering Little Richard didn't make for an embarrassing enough comparison, they had to drug out and mutilate Chuck Berry. Fuck 'em.

Totally not what I thought you were gonna say...like I said before, those covers are OK, just a lot less interesting than some of the original material on that album.

So...what did you think I was going to say?

[xxxHunterxxx]

If Hunter thinks BitUSA is good, other than the songs mentioned, he really does need to buy obik lunch and learn a little about the MC5 and music in general.

Seriously? I was in Youth Brigade* and your favorite band is The Kills. There aren't enough lunches in the world to help you.



* For 7 weeks. As an understudy.

[xxxHunterxxx]

If Hunter thinks BitUSA is good, other than the songs mentioned, he really does need to buy obik lunch and learn a little about the MC5 and music in general.

Seriously? I was in Youth Brigade* and your favorite band is The Kills. There aren't enough lunches in the world to help you.



* For 7 weeks. As an understudy.

And P.S, screw you, I was in Rocket from the Tombs.*





*Okay, it was a David Thomas side project. And it lasted for one gig.

[version sound]

I'm not even quite sure who the Kills are. Are they they same as the Killers?

[xxxHunterxxx]

I'm not even quite sure who the Kills are. Are they they same as the Killers?

Why are you asking me? They're YOUR favorite band. You're always raving about that Sune woman in like every other thread.

[JGJR]

*Okay, it was a David Thomas side project. And it lasted for one gig.

Do tell!

[JGJR]

I think High Time is definitely their best album sound-wise (VS is completely right about the guitar one), but Back in the USA is their best material-wise. I mean seriously, obik, "American Ruse" and "Human Being Lawnmower" are incredible.

Yeah. And you put those two songs on the bonus 45 that comes with the Kick Out The Jams / High Time double LP. Everything else on Back In The USA is disposable at best, offensive at worst.

Why do you say offensive, though?

Tutti Frutti? Third lamest cover version ever (which is really saying something, given how many shitty covers there've been of that song). It's not just limp and lifeless and lame, it's offensive. It's sacrilegious. It's Kenny G covering Sun Ra.

And Back In The USA? Christ. If covering Little Richard didn't make for an embarrassing enough comparison, they had to drug out and mutilate Chuck Berry. Fuck 'em.

Totally not what I thought you were gonna say...like I said before, those covers are OK, just a lot less interesting than some of the original material on that album.

So...what did you think I was going to say?

I was talking about the MC5 with a friend of mine a few months ago and he was going on about how potentially offensive a song like "Teenage Lust" could be so I thought maybe you'd say that as well.

[version sound]

I was talking about the MC5 with a friend of mine a few months ago and he was going on about how potentially offensive a song like "Teenage Lust" could be so I thought maybe you'd say that as well.

Buy me lunch sometime and I'll explain obik to you.

[MXV]

If people are doling out free lunches I will take one!

What album was "Looking at You" on or was it just a single? That's my favorite MC5 song but I heard the Damned version first (and love it), many years before I'd finally get around to picking up any MC5 records.

[version sound]

If people are doling out free lunches I will take one!

What album was "Looking at You" on or was it just a single? That's my favorite MC5 song but I heard the Damned version first (and love it), many years before I'd finally get around to picking up any MC5 records.

The amazing version was an early single, but there's a lame re-recorded version on Back in the USA.

[obik]

I was talking about the MC5 with a friend of mine a few months ago and he was going on about how potentially offensive a song like "Teenage Lust" could be so I thought maybe you'd say that as well.

Buy me lunch sometime and I'll explain obik to you.

Is that offer open to anyone?

[obik]

If people are doling out free lunches I will take one!

What album was "Looking at You" on or was it just a single? That's my favorite MC5 song but I heard the Damned version first (and love it), many years before I'd finally get around to picking up any MC5 records.

The amazing version was an early single, but there's a lame re-recorded version on Back in the USA.

Both early singles are also bonus tracks on some versions of Thunder Express. Needle drop, but sounding pretty good nonetheless.

[version sound]

I was talking about the MC5 with a friend of mine a few months ago and he was going on about how potentially offensive a song like "Teenage Lust" could be so I thought maybe you'd say that as well.

Buy me lunch sometime and I'll explain obik to you.

Is that offer open to anyone?

Depends on what's on the table for lunch (pun intended).

[obik]

I was talking about the MC5 with a friend of mine a few months ago and he was going on about how potentially offensive a song like "Teenage Lust" could be so I thought maybe you'd say that as well.

Buy me lunch sometime and I'll explain obik to you.

Is that offer open to anyone?

Depends on what's on the table for lunch (pun intended).

You can have whatever I leave on the plate.

[drew]

If people are doling out free lunches I will take one!

What album was "Looking at You" on or was it just a single? That's my favorite MC5 song but I heard the Damned version first (and love it), many years before I'd finally get around to picking up any MC5 records.

Great version of that on "The Big Bang: The Best of MC5" on Rhino which is the absolute best hits record of theirs. It has singles & the best songs from all three albums.

[version sound]

I was talking about the MC5 with a friend of mine a few months ago and he was going on about how potentially offensive a song like "Teenage Lust" could be so I thought maybe you'd say that as well.

Buy me lunch sometime and I'll explain obik to you.

Is that offer open to anyone?

Depends on what's on the table for lunch (pun intended).

You can have whatever I leave on the plate.

You should take me to lunch so I can explain taking people to lunch to you.

[obik]

I was talking about the MC5 with a friend of mine a few months ago and he was going on about how potentially offensive a song like "Teenage Lust" could be so I thought maybe you'd say that as well.

Buy me lunch sometime and I'll explain obik to you.

Is that offer open to anyone?

Depends on what's on the table for lunch (pun intended).

You can have whatever I leave on the plate.

You should take me to lunch so I can explain taking people to lunch to you.

Good idea. I'm really hungry though, so I hope you've already eaten.

[xxxHunterxxx]

*Okay, it was a David Thomas side project. And it lasted for one gig.

Do tell!

Not much to tell. It was a one-off gig. We played a bunch of Pere Ubu tunes and some of his solo stuff. We sounded good considering we rehearsed with him once. He's the only non-guitar-playing singer I've encountered who can identify what time signature and key a song is in.

[obik]

He's the only non-guitar-playing singer I've encountered who can identify what time signature and key a song is in.

The correct identifications are--obviously--"out of" and "off".

[JGJR]

If people are doling out free lunches I will take one!

What album was "Looking at You" on or was it just a single? That's my favorite MC5 song but I heard the Damned version first (and love it), many years before I'd finally get around to picking up any MC5 records.

This is pretty much my exact experience (i.e. hearing The Damned's version way before I heard the original). I played The Damned's version yesterday as I made a Spotify playlist of punk/post-punk covers of classic rock songs (yes I stretched the definition of classic rock a bit).

[JGJR]

*Okay, it was a David Thomas side project. And it lasted for one gig.

Do tell!

Not much to tell. It was a one-off gig. We played a bunch of Pere Ubu tunes and some of his solo stuff. We sounded good considering we rehearsed with him once. He's the only non-guitar-playing singer I've encountered who can identify what time signature and key a song is in.

Uh, for starters, how did you end up playing with him?

[obik]

*Okay, it was a David Thomas side project. And it lasted for one gig.

Do tell!

Not much to tell. It was a one-off gig. We played a bunch of Pere Ubu tunes and some of his solo stuff. We sounded good considering we rehearsed with him once. He's the only non-guitar-playing singer I've encountered who can identify what time signature and key a song is in.

Uh, for starters, how did you end up playing with him?

Charlie Harper lost an entire lineup of the UK Subs to David Thomas in a poker game.

[JGJR]

*Okay, it was a David Thomas side project. And it lasted for one gig.

Do tell!

Not much to tell. It was a one-off gig. We played a bunch of Pere Ubu tunes and some of his solo stuff. We sounded good considering we rehearsed with him once. He's the only non-guitar-playing singer I've encountered who can identify what time signature and key a song is in.

Uh, for starters, how did you end up playing with him?

Charlie Harper lost an entire lineup of the UK Subs to David Thomas in a poker game.

OK, but the real question is how he balanced his bass playing duties in Napalm Death and Dag Nasty with practicing his dunking skills all while playing with David Thomas. That is quite impressive.