BLACK FLAG

Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby WrEtcH » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:31 am

Statement Regarding Dispute:

The dispute over Black Flag is not motivated by an effort to stop anyone from covering Black Flag songs. Quite to the contrary. Henry Garfield (Rollins) and Keith Morris made an effort to hijack the name for their own use. Behind everyone's back Garfield and Morris last year filed a fraudulent trademark application in which they are claiming to own the name. Had we not taken action, this pair could have snuck this false application through enabling them to stop Black Flag from playing and use of the name for themselves.


it's hilarious that nobody is falling for it on facebook and a lot of people are criticizing Ginn for his actions
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:38 am

WrEtcH wrote:
Statement Regarding Dispute:

The dispute over Black Flag is not motivated by an effort to stop anyone from covering Black Flag songs. Quite to the contrary. Henry Garfield (Rollins) and Keith Morris made an effort to hijack the name for their own use. Behind everyone's back Garfield and Morris last year filed a fraudulent trademark application in which they are claiming to own the name. Had we not taken action, this pair could have snuck this false application through enabling them to stop Black Flag from playing and use of the name for themselves.


it's hilarious that nobody is falling for it on facebook and a lot of people are criticizing Ginn for his actions


Where's that quote from? They OWN the TM, they didn't just file it, it's approved and live.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:42 am

Welly wrote:
WrEtcH wrote:
Statement Regarding Dispute:

The dispute over Black Flag is not motivated by an effort to stop anyone from covering Black Flag songs. Quite to the contrary. Henry Garfield (Rollins) and Keith Morris made an effort to hijack the name for their own use. Behind everyone's back Garfield and Morris last year filed a fraudulent trademark application in which they are claiming to own the name. Had we not taken action, this pair could have snuck this false application through enabling them to stop Black Flag from playing and use of the name for themselves.


it's hilarious that nobody is falling for it on facebook and a lot of people are criticizing Ginn for his actions


Where's that quote from? They OWN the TM, they didn't just file it, it's approved and live.



from black flag official facebook page.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:57 am

Well he's either not up to speed or lying. Like I was saying, I was following this long before all this came out, Here's Ginn's abandoned 90's application, and Morris/Rollins' current live TM (application process is done, it's a TM)...

[url]Links timed out - do your own search like[/url]

The thing is, not only do people always confuse Copyright with Trade Mark, they also confuse the fact that a TM is for a very specific thing. If you look you will see Ginn applied for that specific logo, and did a really bad job of it in the class description. Whereas Morris/Rollins have a TM for the three specific classes of a TM that you need for a band (music product, merch and live performance), and they've not specified a logo, just the words, so as long as those classes don't interfere with another live TM, then they're fine (like if they started selling bug spray, they'd be challenged).

I don't know if you know the story about our old band or not, but we had TM issues like this from a boy band and lost our deal with BYO. When asked about their prior knowledge of our long prior usage of the name, the LA lawyer who bought the TM for Universal in full knowledge of our usage said something to the effect of; "well, they're just some little band and we're this big law firm representing a big corporation, what are they going to do about it." I could look up the quote, but that's the gist of it.
Last edited by Welly on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:13 am

john stabb wrote:It's funny that my friend Stain from The Stain just told me this evening that he's gonna call Ginn & tell him that him rereleasing the old band, Stains (after they were dead & gone many years back) that a lawsuit can be put on Ginn. Stain chose his band's name in early 80's after seeing that the TX band, Stains, broke up & he copyrighted the name, Stain.

Also I had no idea that Raymond Pettibon (Greg's brother) came up with the band name, Black Flag, until talking to Stain this evening. That tosses Greg's lawsuit out the f'n window, right :?:


I learned that from your favorite book, American Hardcore 8-)
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:13 am

aquaman wrote:At Punk Rock Bowling FLAG sold the members' names shirt and a white shirt that said Black Flag with the bars on it, that you've seen a million times. I expressed my shock to XXXMidgeXXX when the RiotFest add came out and had the staggered bars logo on it. It was the first ad to have that, all the other shows up til then had the four even bars...I wondered if that was going to create a shitstorm for FLAG as they seemed to have been laying low of sorts from Ginn's path....Then at PRB Bill Stevenson said Ginn didn't own the bars, Pettibon does and that made it very interesting to me. Now all of this. This is going to be a fun case. Maybe our resident lawyers can chime in, I'm curious at to the thought that if the FLAG members (minus Dukowski who already settled and Stephen who is not on any BF recording) go after Ginn AND WIN, do the rest of the SST artists see this as a door opening for either their own suit or could they go class action?


I know Husker Du are finally trying to take action, per that Mojo article from last month where they interviewed Grant.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:16 am

yourenotevil wrote:from black flag official facebook page.


Just checked it. I un-'liked' it a while ago. Full of learned comments such as...

Rollins and Morris did file for ownership of the Black Flag logo and images in 2012. This is a trademark dispute, not a copyright dispute. They tried to claim ownership of the bar logo and related graphics last year.


At least it's partially right.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:19 am

gregpolard wrote:I know Husker Du are finally trying to take action, per that Mojo article from last month where they interviewed Grant.


Hüsker has been in the pipeline for a while. I think it was the inspiration for the BF TM with more to follow.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:12 am

Welly wrote:
gregpolard wrote:I know Husker Du are finally trying to take action, per that Mojo article from last month where they interviewed Grant.


Hüsker has been in the pipeline for a while. I think it was the inspiration for the BF TM with more to follow.


Interesting. I know that as of the time of Bob's book, which came out around 2 years ago....there was nothing in action. But it makes sense.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:11 am

This made Pitchfork news. I guess Kanye West didn't do anything noteworthy today

http://pitchfork.com/news/51756-black-f ... y-rollins/
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tad ghostal » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:26 am

I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Pffft » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:56 am

tad ghostal wrote:I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.

Except that most of them seem pretty pissed at Greg before this so probably won't mind fighting him a bit.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:03 am

Pffft wrote:
tad ghostal wrote:I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.

Except that most of them seem pretty pissed at Greg before this so probably won't mind fighting him a bit.


And Ginn could, in fact, win this lawsuit.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:05 am

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
Pffft wrote:
tad ghostal wrote:I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.

Except that most of them seem pretty pissed at Greg before this so probably won't mind fighting him a bit.


And Ginn could, in fact, win this lawsuit.


Please explain how ya reckon.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:15 am

Like JGJR said, I hope it doesn't affect the Flag tour.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tad ghostal » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:16 am

Pffft wrote:
tad ghostal wrote:I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.

Except that most of them seem pretty pissed at Greg before this so probably won't mind fighting him a bit.

I'm sure they don't mind fighting him, except that it costs money to fight a lawsuit. Henry probably has money, and maybe Chuck and Bill do, too, but I'm pretty sure that Keith does not and I have no idea about Stephen or Dez. Chuck and Bill have already sued Greg in the past, who knows if they want to go through it again.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:29 am

Welly wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
Pffft wrote:
tad ghostal wrote:I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.

Except that most of them seem pretty pissed at Greg before this so probably won't mind fighting him a bit.


And Ginn could, in fact, win this lawsuit.


Please explain how ya reckon.


The Court could invalidate the mark registered by Rollins and Morris, find that Ginn is the rightful trademark holder of the Black Flag name and logo, conclude that Flag is infringing upon those trademarks and award beaucoup damages.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby SamDBL » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:36 am

That's interesting. And probably pretty true as he was the only constant member of the band. He obviously owes some of those members a fair amount of money, though. Although I'm also guessing he doesn't have the money that is owed in his possession (long gone). I'm wondering how that will affect any power he has in this. Like maybe he's unable to pay what he owes them, so they'll have the right to continue as a way to recover the funds?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby SamDBL » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:38 am

PS How amazing would it be if both bands started kickstarters to fund legal action against each other?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby jason powell » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:00 am

I am very curious to see how this will play out, I'm practically excited about it. Their whole history, despite how iconic the four bars are, is legally confused as far as I can tell.

The name and logo were basically seized by Greg in the first place from his brother, Pettibone, and which he is very bitter over. And they had the whole Unicorn case, where the name and logo were called in question, and where the band would illegally bill themselves with the logo on flyers even when the name "Black Flag" wasnt used. I believe that they never had to really iron that out legally because Unicorn went under. Years later, Rollins got the okay from Greg for the W3 stuff. There were a couple Cat Flag disasters. Then Keith and Henry file for TM. Then Flag goes on tour, then Black Flag is cobbled together, and now the lawsuit. Plus there's the whole royalties thing that we can imagine will be added into the mix. Where's the popcorn?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:01 am

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
Welly wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
Pffft wrote:
tad ghostal wrote:I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.

Except that most of them seem pretty pissed at Greg before this so probably won't mind fighting him a bit.


And Ginn could, in fact, win this lawsuit.


Please explain how ya reckon.


The Court could invalidate the mark registered by Rollins and Morris, find that Ginn is the rightful trademark holder of the Black Flag name and logo, conclude that Flag is infringing upon those trademarks and award beaucoup damages.


But how would he prove prior usage to invalidate the TM? The first usage bearing the name (Nervous Breakdown?) also bears Morris' name. Morris/Rollins' TM lawyer will have supplied first use in commerce evidence in order to attain each class of TM, which will no doubt bear names of both parties. I guess Ginn could claim like Biafra that he kept the records in print over the years.

In regards to the logo, pretty much all their flyers/covers were signed/credited by/to Pettibon, and all have the same logo. There's even a short documentary just out about his designing of their work, not to mention abundant historical evidence as to his contribution. If Ginn has not TM'd the name or logo, then he would have to go to some lengths to 'prove' ownership, when you take the above into account.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:11 am

Welly wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
Welly wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
Pffft wrote:
tad ghostal wrote:I had heard that the members of Flag had consulted an attorney before going public to make sure that everything they were doing was legal. Part of me wonders if some of this isn't simply a nuisance lawsuit on Greg's part. Maybe he knows he can't beat Flag in court but maybe he hopes that some of the guys might drop out because they don't want to be involved in a lawsuit. It work when Josh Homme sued the guys from Kyuss Lives for similar reasons.

Except that most of them seem pretty pissed at Greg before this so probably won't mind fighting him a bit.

And Ginn could, in fact, win this lawsuit.

Please explain how ya reckon.

The Court could invalidate the mark registered by Rollins and Morris, find that Ginn is the rightful trademark holder of the Black Flag name and logo, conclude that Flag is infringing upon those trademarks and award beaucoup damages.

But how would he prove prior usage to invalidate the TM? The first usage bearing the name (Nervous Breakdown?) also bears Morris' name. Morris/Rollins' TM lawyer will have supplied first use in commerce evidence in order to attain each class of TM, which will no doubt bear names of both parties. I guess Ginn could claim like Biafra that he kept the records in print over the years.
In regards to the logo, pretty much all their flyers/covers were signed/credited by/to Pettibon, and all have the same logo. There's even a short documentary just out about his designing of their work, not to mention abundant historical evidence as to his contribution. If Ginn has not TM'd the name or logo, then he would have to go to some lengths to 'prove' ownership, when you take the above into account.


There are lots of arguments Ginn could make, including that Morris abandoned any claim he had when he left the band in 1980. There are a lot of arguments the defendants can make in response. It's way too soon to predict who's going to win, but Ginn has a colorable claim at the very least.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:16 am

Well both parties have a claim obviously, and it could go either way. I was just interested in your thoughts.

Just checked the TM and if you look at 'first use in commerce' for each class, it gives 1978-10-01 for audio recording, 1979-01-27 for merch and live: 1st October 1978 for Nervous Breakdown 7" and 27th January 1979 for the first gig at the Moose Lodge in Redondo Beach, with the prior date of 1st October and December 1978, presumably dates when they changed the name to Black Flag.

Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Audio and video recordings featuring music and artistic performances. FIRST USE: 19781001. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19781001
IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Hats; Pants; Shirts; Socks; Sweat shirts; T-shirts associated with the punk rock musical group "Black ". FIRST USE: 19781201. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19790127
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment, namely, live performances by a musical band. FIRST USE: 19781201. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19790127
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby JGJR » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:00 pm

john stabb wrote:It's funny that my friend Stain from The Stain just told me this evening that he's gonna call Ginn & tell him that him rereleasing the old band, Stains (after they were dead & gone many years back) that a lawsuit can be put on Ginn. Stain chose his band's name in early 80's after seeing that the TX band, Stains, broke up & he copyrighted the name, Stain.

Also I had no idea that Raymond Pettibon (Greg's brother) came up with the band name, Black Flag, until talking to Stain this evening. That tosses Greg's lawsuit out the f'n window, right :?:


You mean the TX Stains who later became MDC?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby obik » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:45 pm

Random factoid: Ginn sued Morris (or maybe threatened to?) after the first Circle Jerks LP was released and forced a songwriting credit change on the record.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tad ghostal » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:26 pm

WrEtcH wrote:
Statement Regarding Dispute:

The dispute over Black Flag is not motivated by an effort to stop anyone from covering Black Flag songs. Quite to the contrary. Henry Garfield (Rollins) and Keith Morris made an effort to hijack the name for their own use. Behind everyone's back Garfield and Morris last year filed a fraudulent trademark application in which they are claiming to own the name. Had we not taken action, this pair could have snuck this false application through enabling them to stop Black Flag from playing and use of the name for themselves.


it's hilarious that nobody is falling for it on facebook and a lot of people are criticizing Ginn for his actions


The Official Black Flag page has been deleting all the negative posts that people have been leaving on the page.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:30 pm

A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:34 pm

gregpolard wrote:A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.


ha, yeah i got blocked too. there were a couple hundred comments on that page so i imagine they were busy. i saw jason wrote something but i can't recall what it said. if you see this did you get blocked as well?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby MXV » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:39 pm

I read through much of the suit but got a headache after awhile but here's my two cents which in today's economy is really worth almost nothing.

1: I thought it was sad before that there was two black flags on tour at the same time playing mostly the same songs and that they all couldn't just get along for the greater good of making money which is clearly the driving force behind both bands touring (and there's nothing wrong with that despite what YNE will tell you). This is actually way more ridiculous than when there were two Christian Deaths touring at the same time.

2: I now know the real names of some of those past band members.

3: It stated that Black Flag has sold over one million records. With the exception of Chuck Dukowski who according to the suit settled a royalty dispute a few years ago, that is written proof now that the rest of the former band members can now use to counter sue for years of unpaid royalties.

4. Why is Henry named in the suit? He isn't in either current sad flag band and he isn't (as far as I know) selling any merch, records or anything else related to BF is he? It seems to me that he has stayed out of all of this and is content with whatever projects he's been doing lately.

I didn't go see Greg's BF because despite the fact he has my favorite BF singer with him, the bad taste of that last reunion he did for the cats is still so strong in my mouth that I didn't want to endure that again even for free. I will most likely see the other version because I'm shooting Riot Fest and they are playing that festival but if it conflicts with any band I like playing on one of the other stages at the same time then I'll be missing them too. I'm fine with not seeing or even photographing either half flag even though both versions contain some of my punk rock heroes. I also think in a way things like this to me taint the legacy of the band in a way when they split into sides and fight in public or in the courts. I'd rather there be no black flags and have the memories and the good records instead of this. I mean didn't they do enough damage with Family Man? Is this all really necessary?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:43 pm

yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.


ha, yeah i got blocked too. there were a couple hundred comments on that page so i imagine they were busy. i saw jason wrote something but i can't recall what it said. if you see this did you get blocked as well?


Jason who? And I was not blocked to my knowledge. I didn't say anything on there though.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:45 pm

gregpolard wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.


ha, yeah i got blocked too. there were a couple hundred comments on that page so i imagine they were busy. i saw jason wrote something but i can't recall what it said. if you see this did you get blocked as well?


Jason who? And I was not blocked to my knowledge. I didn't say anything on there though.



powell of this board. they only blocked people who commented negatively. i said something like, why would henry or even keith want to stop black flag from playing and said the statement was idiotic.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:50 pm

yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.


ha, yeah i got blocked too. there were a couple hundred comments on that page so i imagine they were busy. i saw jason wrote something but i can't recall what it said. if you see this did you get blocked as well?


Jason who? And I was not blocked to my knowledge. I didn't say anything on there though.



powell of this board. they only blocked people who commented negatively. i said something like, why would henry or even keith want to stop black flag from playing and said the statement was idiotic.


Ah, gotcha! Yeah I figure I don't want to get blocked as I kinda want to see the craziness unravel.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tad ghostal » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:52 pm

yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.


ha, yeah i got blocked too. there were a couple hundred comments on that page so i imagine they were busy. i saw jason wrote something but i can't recall what it said. if you see this did you get blocked as well?


Jason who? And I was not blocked to my knowledge. I didn't say anything on there though.



powell of this board. they only blocked people who commented negatively. i said something like, why would henry or even keith want to stop black flag from playing and said the statement was idiotic.


The only comments that are left now are basically in the vein of "all you guys hating on Greg are stupid", "Can't wait to you live!" or "Fuck Rollins"
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:53 pm

tad ghostal wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.


ha, yeah i got blocked too. there were a couple hundred comments on that page so i imagine they were busy. i saw jason wrote something but i can't recall what it said. if you see this did you get blocked as well?


Jason who? And I was not blocked to my knowledge. I didn't say anything on there though.



powell of this board. they only blocked people who commented negatively. i said something like, why would henry or even keith want to stop black flag from playing and said the statement was idiotic.


The only comments that are left now are basically in the vein of "all you guys hating on Greg are stupid", "Can't wait to you live!" or "Fuck Rollins"


haha! There really are people who totally side with Ginn on this issue too, which surprises me to a degree.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:53 pm

gregpolard wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
gregpolard wrote:A friend of mine was blocked from their page for writing a comment "Ginn's just mad that Flag are doing a better job with his own legacy than he is" or something like that.


ha, yeah i got blocked too. there were a couple hundred comments on that page so i imagine they were busy. i saw jason wrote something but i can't recall what it said. if you see this did you get blocked as well?


Jason who? And I was not blocked to my knowledge. I didn't say anything on there though.



powell of this board. they only blocked people who commented negatively. i said something like, why would henry or even keith want to stop black flag from playing and said the statement was idiotic.


Ah, gotcha! Yeah I figure I don't want to get blocked as I kinda want to see the craziness unravel.



you can still see the posts, but you can no longer comment.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tad ghostal » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:54 pm

MXV wrote:4. Why is Henry named in the suit? He isn't in either current sad flag band and he isn't (as far as I know) selling any merch, records or anything else related to BF is he? It seems to me that he has stayed out of all of this and is content with whatever projects he's been doing lately.


Henry and Keith filed for the trademark on the Black Flag name and logo last year. Greg claims they used "false statements" to do this. That why Henry's being sued.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby jason powell » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:10 pm

I cant remember exactly what I said, it wasn't nasty or anything.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:22 pm

Welly wrote:Well both parties have a claim obviously, and it could go either way. I was just interested in your thoughts.

Just checked the TM and if you look at 'first use in commerce' for each class, it gives 1978-10-01 for audio recording, 1979-01-27 for merch and live: 1st October 1978 for Nervous Breakdown 7" and 27th January 1979 for the first gig at the Moose Lodge in Redondo Beach, with the prior date of 1st October and December 1978, presumably dates when they changed the name to Black Flag.

Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Audio and video recordings featuring music and artistic performances. FIRST USE: 19781001. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19781001
IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Hats; Pants; Shirts; Socks; Sweat shirts; T-shirts associated with the punk rock musical group "Black ". FIRST USE: 19781201. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19790127
IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment, namely, live performances by a musical band. FIRST USE: 19781201. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19790127


As I've mentioned before, I know nothing about Trademark law so my opinion isn't worth a damn. With that disclaimer out of the way, my gut feeling is that it will be difficult for Rollins and Morris to establish that their Trademark is valid. I distinctly remember reading an article in the LA Times about a Masque reunion in the 90s at which someone said to Morris: "I forgot you were in Black Flag," to which Morris replied, "I did, too." Rollins has also repeatedly described Black Flag as "Greg's band." Statements like that will likely hurt them. I think Flag will have an easier time establishing that they didn't infringe. I think Ginn will have trouble establishing that there has been consumer confusion.

I suspect that none of the parties, save for Ginn, Rollins, and possibly Dukowski, has a lot of money so we may see a settlement sooner rather than later.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby FlexMyHead » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:44 pm

Not that I would know, but I'm guessing Henry is the only one with an attorney on retainer. I made it to like page 10 before I started skipping around and didn't read anymore. As always, if they all have to get their own lawyer, then the only ones that are going to win are the lawyers.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby earthdog70 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:41 pm

Pretty crazy stuff-just hope the FLAG tour doesn't get canned :bag:
"And so it goes."-Kurt Vonnegut
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxMidgexxx » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:15 pm

clash77 wrote:the 2067th thread about this band...Are we bored yet??? stop!!!!!!!!!!!



Let's talk about A-Roid instead and make you happy.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tad ghostal » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:41 pm

In sort of related news, Eugene Robinson is talking about reviving Black Face without Chuck.
http://www.mtvhive.com/2013/07/15/eugen ... lack-face/
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Michele » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:19 pm

this Whole reunions/diatribes/case stuff it's turning one of my fave bands in soemthing even more ridicolous then the Osbournes....
"Punker": Damnit, your english is confusing!
"Version Sound": Damnit, your english is amazing!
"Cischord": Damnit, my English is confusing!
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxMidgexxx » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:23 pm

Apparently there's a lawsuit going on now. About Black Flag is some sorta way.

Anybody hear anything about this? Black Flag lawsuit.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:31 pm

xxxMidgexxx wrote:Apparently there's a lawsuit going on now. About Black Flag is some sorta way.

Anybody hear anything about this? Black Flag lawsuit.


Save it for the haiku thread.
scannest wrote:It's like a filmmaker saying "Spielberg is my idol. Every time I get behind the camera I think about how I can make my film as good as Hook"
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tad ghostal » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:46 pm

xxxMidgexxx wrote:Apparently there's a lawsuit going on now. About Black Flag is some sorta way.

Anybody hear anything about this? Black Flag lawsuit.


They're suing each other to see who gets custody of Robo.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby jason powell » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:03 pm

the black flag lawsuit
who'll get custody of robo?
maybe the cats will
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxMidgexxx » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:42 pm

SamDBL wrote:PS How amazing would it be if both bands started kickstarters to fund legal action against each other?



That would be f'n GREAT.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Knutsen » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:01 pm

Saw Black Flag yesterday in Berlin, Germany.
Good show!
Had a nice chat with bassplayer Dave Klein which I know from the Allboard/Dorkboard. Scored a t-shirt. Thanks again!
I must admit that I appreciated the new er songs more, because i have listened to the old songs too many times.

Drummer was weak a few times, but overall a very good show.

PS: Some friend said they looked and sounded like the Rollins Band fronted by Danny DeVito.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Knutsen wrote:Saw Black Flag yesterday in Berlin, Germany.
Good show!
Had a nice chat with bassplayer Dave Klein which I know from the Allboard/Dorkboard. Scored a t-shirt. Thanks again!
I must admit that I appreciated the new er songs more, because i have listened to the old songs too many times.

Drummer was weak a few times, but overall a very good show.

PS: Some friend said they looked and sounded like the Rollins Band fronted by Danny DeVito.


This made me laugh out loud at my desk at work. Thank you.
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