BLACK FLAG

BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxMidgexxx » Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:13 pm

Anyone here a fan?
I heard they got back together in one form or another.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby tango fistula » Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:30 pm

Hippie jam band stuff
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Bill » Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:43 pm

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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby version sound » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:46 pm

The consensus seems to be that Flug is better than Hack Flag. I'm waiting for the Henry/Kira/Robo/Cel version, Blank Flurg.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:19 am

I know it's been talked about a lot but it really is a shame they can't just put differences aside and do a real full fledged Black Flag show or something.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:09 pm

gregpolard wrote:I know it's been talked about a lot but it really is a shame they can't just put differences aside and do a real full fledged Black Flag show or something.


in a black face interview, i guess it mentioned chuck and greg doing some initial feelers about trying to mend the fences and get the band going again, but it never went anywhere. i can only surmise at that point that pretty much everyone that had beef with greg would have signed on(well, maybe not keith), but it will never happen, and def not with both bands out there now.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxMidgexxx » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:41 pm

It's not Black Flag without Rollins.

And on that note, I'm ending this thread.

END
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Pffft » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:13 pm

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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby the mean » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:37 pm

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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby aquaman » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:52 pm

This is going to be very interesting/entertaining. I don't believe it's the case but I can almost see it as they baited Ginn to sue so they can counter sue for unpaid royalties, he is not going to want to produce his books.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxMidgexxx » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:14 pm

Still don't understand what Henry has to do with this.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby obik » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:03 am

xxxMidgexxx wrote:Still don't understand what Henry has to do with this.


He and Keith have registered trademarks for Black Flag.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:32 am

aquaman wrote:This is going to be very interesting/entertaining. I don't believe it's the case but I can almost see it as they baited Ginn to sue so they can counter sue for unpaid royalties, he is not going to want to produce his books.


Yeah, he's opened the can of worms. I wondered about Ginn's right to use when all this reformation stuff kicked off and looked it up on the US TM site, and saw they filed and then got the TM. As far as I can tell he has never owned a TM for it. He applied for but abandoned a TM in 94-95.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby pedro » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:31 am

While I was reading the complaint, I was waiting for "and by the way, Stephen bought one of those clear guitars too!"
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:02 am

pedro wrote:While I was reading the complaint, I was waiting for "and by the way, Stephen bought one of those clear guitars too!"


Ha ha!
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:52 am

pedro wrote:While I was reading the complaint, I was waiting for "and by the way, Stephen bought one of those clear guitars too!"


I laughed out loud.

But seriously though, I'm surprised it took this long to happen. But like someone else mentioned, I wonder if it's just bait so they can counter sue for years of unpaid royalties.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:06 am

the mean wrote:http://www.hollywoodreporter.com//sites/default/files/custom/Documents/ESQ/SSTRecordsvRollins.pdf


You guys know I hate to say I told you so but . . .

xxxHunterxxx wrote:A cynic might say that Ginn reformed Black Flag and launched a tour that coincided with Flag's live performances to strengthen his future trademark infringement suit against them


http://www.daghouse.com/jacopo/viewtopic.php?t=24913&start=0
Last edited by xxxHunterxxx on Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:09 am

aquaman wrote:This is going to be very interesting/entertaining. I don't believe it's the case but I can almost see it as they baited Ginn to sue so they can counter sue for unpaid royalties, he is not going to want to produce his books.


I concur.

xxxHunterxxx wrote:If Ginn really hasn't paid anybody royalties in years (and I have no idea whether that is the case), he needs to tread very carefully. Suing Flag would force them to retain counsel. That counsel would likely counterclaim against Greg/SST for unpaid royalties and various other unspeakable acts committed over the years. That would probably open the floodgates and everybody from Lawndale to the Estate of Zoogz Rift would be trying to get in on the action.


http://www.daghouse.com/jacopo/viewtopic.php?t=24913&start=0
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby version sound » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:49 am

Ginn has continuously been performing under the name? Sure...oh yeah, except for 1986-2013.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:52 am

version sound wrote:Ginn has continuously been performing under the name? Sure...oh yeah, except for 1986-2013.


By performing, he seems to mean "selling shirts and records."
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby aquaman » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:13 pm

I wonder about the timing too. Suit filed on Aug 2 with 21 days to reply, so Aug 23, FLAG plays FYF Fest a rather large SoCal show on the 24th (but do have 2 smaller shows on 22nd and 23rd)
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby Welly » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:31 pm

I don't think it's timing. I do think he's walked into it though. He gets the bad press, they get the books examined. They were going to do something, otherwise why buy the TM?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxMidgexxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:10 pm

Anyone here have any thoughts on this Black Flag reunion of sorts?

Now there's 2 of them.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:35 pm

xxxMidgexxx wrote:Anyone here have any thoughts on this Black Flag reunion of sorts?

Now there's 2 of them.


Pics or it didn't happen.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:22 pm

i don't think FLAG was constructed solely for the purpose of being able to counter sure ginn, but it might have been part of their intention by using such a similar name and logo. seems like chuck wanted to do Black flag songs with black face(which he back out for whatever reason), and then this came along. i do think ginn is entering a world of shit as far as his back payment of royalties are concerned. i think he is also going to have a hard time proving there was confusion as to how FLAG was taking money from him when he was able to sell out several towns on a full US tour. i think you can prove that a promoter knew which band was which when booking and advertising a show.

i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:52 pm

yourenotevil wrote:
i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.


He's going after Henry because Henry and Keith trademarked the Black Flag name and logo in 2012. I am now convinced that Ginn reunited Black Flag just to strengthen his position in this litigation. This is going to be fascinating.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:58 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.


He's going after Henry because Henry and Keith trademarked the Black Flag name and logo in 2012. I am now convinced that Ginn reunited Black Flag just to strengthen his position in this litigation. This is going to be fascinating.


One thing that will be really interesting is to see how much money they're fighting over both in terms of back royalties (provided the defendants countersue) and tour earnings.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:06 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.


He's going after Henry because Henry and Keith trademarked the Black Flag name and logo in 2012. I am now convinced that Ginn reunited Black Flag just to strengthen his position in this litigation. This is going to be fascinating.



yeah, but it also mentions Rollins and the 2003 tribute record and the tour he did, as earning money under Ginn's property.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby the mean » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:12 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:One thing that will be really interesting is to see how much money they're fighting over both in terms of back royalties (provided the defendants countersue) and tour earnings.

This will be fascinating if it gets out.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:25 pm

yourenotevil wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.


He's going after Henry because Henry and Keith trademarked the Black Flag name and logo in 2012. I am now convinced that Ginn reunited Black Flag just to strengthen his position in this litigation. This is going to be fascinating.



yeah, but it also mentions Rollins and the 2003 tribute record and the tour he did, as earning money under Ginn's property.


He HAD to sue Henry. If Henry's trademark of the Black Flag name and logo is valid, Ginn's whole suit is a nonstarter.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby clash77 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:33 pm

the 2067th thread about this band...Are we bored yet??? stop!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby version sound » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:38 pm

You'd think that these guys would have had enough of legal battles to last a lifetime after the Unicorn suit broke them up in the '80s AND THEY NEVER RECORDED ANOTHER RECORD after the TV Party EP. On the bright side, that did leave them with a nearly perfect track record. Who knows what would have happened, had they stuck around another 3 or 4 years.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:49 pm

version sound wrote:You'd think that these guys would have had enough of legal battles to last a lifetime after the Unicorn suit broke them up in the '80s AND THEY NEVER RECORDED ANOTHER RECORD after the TV Party EP. On the bright side, that did leave them with a nearly perfect track record. Who knows what would have happened, had they stuck around another 3 or 4 years.


I see what you did there.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:49 pm

Also, where are people reading the full legal document?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:57 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.


He's going after Henry because Henry and Keith trademarked the Black Flag name and logo in 2012. I am now convinced that Ginn reunited Black Flag just to strengthen his position in this litigation. This is going to be fascinating.



yeah, but it also mentions Rollins and the 2003 tribute record and the tour he did, as earning money under Ginn's property.


He HAD to sue Henry. If Henry's trademark of the Black Flag name and logo is valid, Ginn's whole suit is a nonstarter.



yeah, but it seems like he is claiming rollins made money off of the WM3 cd and tour, not just the fact that he trademarked it. he seems to be trying to get any money rollins made off of that tour/cd, but it went to charity. rollins didn't trademark the name until 2012, right?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:58 pm

gregpolard wrote:Also, where are people reading the full legal document?


the link above has the full suit in it.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:06 pm

Ah, got it. Thanks.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:16 pm

yourenotevil wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.


He's going after Henry because Henry and Keith trademarked the Black Flag name and logo in 2012. I am now convinced that Ginn reunited Black Flag just to strengthen his position in this litigation. This is going to be fascinating.



yeah, but it also mentions Rollins and the 2003 tribute record and the tour he did, as earning money under Ginn's property.


He HAD to sue Henry. If Henry's trademark of the Black Flag name and logo is valid, Ginn's whole suit is a nonstarter.



yeah, but it seems like he is claiming rollins made money off of the WM3 cd and tour, not just the fact that he trademarked it. he seems to be trying to get any money rollins made off of that tour/cd, but it went to charity. rollins didn't trademark the name until 2012, right?


Yeah, he may have a statute of limitations problem with the portion of the claim that relates to the tour. He may have sued Rollins for the WM3 thing to strengthen his claim against the others or because he's pissed at him for trying to trademark the name and logo. Or maybe he thinks Henry has deeper pockets than the other dudes (which is probably a safe bet). Or he could have done it for 100 other reasons. I can't wait for the defendants to answer.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:19 pm

Interesting that there's talk of the logo....didn't Ginn's brother design it and also never see a penny for any of the work he did for BF?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:33 pm

Another point of confusion....are Flag selling any Black Flag merchandise at their shows? I didn't believe that they were. But from what I'm gathering from this, it says they have.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby xxxHunterxxx » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:43 pm

gregpolard wrote:Another point of confusion....are Flag selling any Black Flag merchandise at their shows? I didn't believe that they were. But from what I'm gathering from this, it says they have.


Ginn is alleging that the Flag merchandise they're selling infringes on the Black Flag trademark.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby gregpolard » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:50 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
gregpolard wrote:Another point of confusion....are Flag selling any Black Flag merchandise at their shows? I didn't believe that they were. But from what I'm gathering from this, it says they have.


Ginn is alleging that the Flag merchandise they're selling infringes on the Black Flag trademark.


Gotcha. Which is funny because, IIRC, it's just shirts that say "Keith & Dez & Chuck & Bill & Stephen"
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby JGJR » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:08 pm

I just hope the suit doesn't affect the tour!
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:25 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
gregpolard wrote:Another point of confusion....are Flag selling any Black Flag merchandise at their shows? I didn't believe that they were. But from what I'm gathering from this, it says they have.


Ginn is alleging that the Flag merchandise they're selling infringes on the Black Flag trademark.



yeah, that is the only shirt they are selling apparently, and it doesn't have the bars or anything on it. and yes, pettibon never got any money from his artwork he did for BF, which is one of the main reasons he and ginn have not talked for years.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:28 pm

xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
xxxHunterxxx wrote:
yourenotevil wrote:
i don't get why he is going after rollins now, 10 years after the fact. that seems petty and pointless. as far as i know, rollins didn't sell any merch at those WM3 shows, and everything went to the charity fund for those guys to have DNA testing done for their case(both the ticket sales and sales of the CD). i think i remember reading that everyone on the tribute cd did it for no money.


He's going after Henry because Henry and Keith trademarked the Black Flag name and logo in 2012. I am now convinced that Ginn reunited Black Flag just to strengthen his position in this litigation. This is going to be fascinating.



yeah, but it also mentions Rollins and the 2003 tribute record and the tour he did, as earning money under Ginn's property.


He HAD to sue Henry. If Henry's trademark of the Black Flag name and logo is valid, Ginn's whole suit is a nonstarter.



yeah, but it seems like he is claiming rollins made money off of the WM3 cd and tour, not just the fact that he trademarked it. he seems to be trying to get any money rollins made off of that tour/cd, but it went to charity. rollins didn't trademark the name until 2012, right?


Yeah, he may have a statute of limitations problem with the portion of the claim that relates to the tour. He may have sued Rollins for the WM3 thing to strengthen his claim against the others or because he's pissed at him for trying to trademark the name and logo. Or maybe he thinks Henry has deeper pockets than the other dudes (which is probably a safe bet). Or he could have done it for 100 other reasons. I can't wait for the defendants to answer.



yeah, i don't see ginn winning against rollins for that part of the suit. i am sure he can show that all of the money(minus the cost of the tour) went to charity. in fact, i remember reading that ginn had to sign off on it in 2003 since they were playing his songs. i think ginn is pretty much asking for the wrath of the courts here. i don't know if you can use it as evidence, but he settled with sonic youth, dino jr and the meat puppets so it is not like he has a great legal track record of royalty payments. i don't think ginn took BF on the road solely to sue, but i am sure the money he pocketed will be paying for most of these legal fees.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby aquaman » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:51 pm

At Punk Rock Bowling FLAG sold the members' names shirt and a white shirt that said Black Flag with the bars on it, that you've seen a million times. I expressed my shock to XXXMidgeXXX when the RiotFest add came out and had the staggered bars logo on it. It was the first ad to have that, all the other shows up til then had the four even bars...I wondered if that was going to create a shitstorm for FLAG as they seemed to have been laying low of sorts from Ginn's path....Then at PRB Bill Stevenson said Ginn didn't own the bars, Pettibon does and that made it very interesting to me. Now all of this. This is going to be a fun case. Maybe our resident lawyers can chime in, I'm curious at to the thought that if the FLAG members (minus Dukowski who already settled and Stephen who is not on any BF recording) go after Ginn AND WIN, do the rest of the SST artists see this as a door opening for either their own suit or could they go class action?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby john stabb » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:21 am

It's funny that my friend Stain from The Stain just told me this evening that he's gonna call Ginn & tell him that him rereleasing the old band, Stains (after they were dead & gone many years back) that a lawsuit can be put on Ginn. Stain chose his band's name in early 80's after seeing that the TX band, Stains, broke up & he copyrighted the name, Stain.

Also I had no idea that Raymond Pettibon (Greg's brother) came up with the band name, Black Flag, until talking to Stain this evening. That tosses Greg's lawsuit out the f'n window, right :?:
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:32 am

won't this play out that FLAG are going to countersue and claim unpaid royalties, but that ultimately they should be giving ginn a percentage of their profits from shows since they are playing songs he wrote, regardless of what happens with the original lawsuit? isn't this like creedence clearwater revisited prolly has to pay royalties to john fogerty or fantasy records( i don't know who own the rights now) whenever they play those songs live?
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby yourenotevil » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:46 am

http://clatl.com/atlanta/dont-call-it-a ... id=1241872

according to this article, rollins called up ginn in 2003 and he agreed to donate the royalties to the WM3 cause, so i don't know what he is trying to gain with this part of the suit.
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Re: BLACK FLAG

Postby WrEtcH » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:50 am

man, this case is going to make the DEAD KENNEDYS trail seem like Night Court
^v^
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